- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Good, as it should be. Hamas shouldn’t be using them, but Israel also definitely shouldn’t be bombing them.
What should it do then? Just watch as Hamas launches rockets at their citizens from hospitals and schools?
The ideal solution would be to see why there’s fighting in the first place and work on that (hint: It’s the Israeli occupation of Palestine. And yes, that includes Gaza, as much as Israel would like you to believe otherwise).
hint: It’s the Israeli occupation of Palestine. And yes, that includes Gaza, as much as Israel would like you to believe otherwise
The aggressive settlement politics of Israel in Palestine is sad enough, but would you care to elaborate on the second part? That seems to be a pretty bold claim, considering that Gaza has been militarily occupied by Hamas since the civil war of 2007 and is still de facto not in the control of either Palestine or Israel. I don’t understand how that could be the case if your claim was true.
According to Hamas doctrine Israel does „occupy“ them by simply existing where Hamas would like to create their caliphate (i.e. Jerusalem). So that might be where the confusion is coming from.
No no, take a look at the UN position among others. Gaza is subject to a land, air and sea blockade that gives Israel near-total control over the Gazan economy, alongside ludicrous amounts of surveillance and more. Gazans are also forbidden entry to some parts near the border.
Israel doesn’t have people physically in Gaza most of the time, but with the amount of control Israel has over Gazans Gaza is most definitely under military occupation by Israel. For example, it’s Israel who decides how much food, water, electricity, medicine, etc etc Gazans get every day, and the answer is always “not enough”.
For more details:
Thank you! The English wikipedia article is very different to my own native language’s one (German). I didn’t know that some people call the blockade of Gaza by Israel and Egypt an occupation. These nuances don’t translate well into my language where the word for occupation implies actually occupying something (“boots on the ground”).
The blockade was the consequence of their neighbour being taken over by a terrorist organization. Both Israel and Egypt tried to loosen the blockade multiple times in the last decade. But any relaxation was answered with violence. I don’t know how anyone should or could possibly proceed in this setting. All I know is that I do sympathize with the civilians on both sides that are suffering because of it, even if one side elected literal terrorists as their leaders and the other side elected a vengeful right-winger.
Edit: Removed last paragraph (see below).
These nuances don’t translate well into my language where the word for occupation implies actually occupying something (“boots on the ground”).
That’s the same in English, but the idea is that there’s not much difference between what’s going on in Gaza and having boots on the ground. When whether you can eat for the day or whether your children can get treated for some illness is dependent on someone other government, that dependence is enforced at gunpoint, and the local government having no say in the matter, that’s an occupation.
The blockade was the consequence of their neighbour being taken over by a terrorist organization.
That’s what Israel would like you to think; the blockade started in 2005, before Hamas even won the election.
Just a little nitpick: The article you posted recites the position of Human Rights Watch at the UN Human Rights Council. It is not the position of the UN. Still, thanks for the link and your otherwise helpful response!
Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Oxfam, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the United Nations, the United Nations General Assembly, the UN Fact Finding Mission to Gaza, international human rights organizations, US government websites, the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and a significant number of legal commentators (Geoffrey Aronson, Meron Benvenisti, Claude Bruderlein, Sari Bashi, Kenneth Mann, Shane Darcy, John Reynolds, Yoram Dinstein, John Dugard, Marc S. Kaliser, Mustafa Mari, and Iain Scobbie) maintain that Israel’s extensive direct external control over Gaza, and indirect control over the lives of its internal population mean that Gaza remained occupied.
Human Rights Watch found no evidence that the civilian victims were used by Palestinian fighters as human shields or were shot in the crossfire between opposing forces. Source
Unless they’ve changed tactics, Israel is lying.
Nice selective context there, removing the first part of the sentence:
In the killings documented in this report, Human Rights Watch found no evidence that the victims were used by Palestinian fighters as human shields or were shot in the crossfire between opposing forces.
So according to the HRW investigation of 11 killings in 2008-2009 the killings weren’t justified by the claims of human shields.
And yet you have things like the UN in 2014 condemning the placement of rockets on site in one of its schools in the region for the second time:
So maybe you mischaracterizing the HRW conclusion and actively ignoring other evidence in the process is the real lying here?
Edit: Also, just for source consistency, we have this 2012 report from HRW:
Human Rights Watch research in Gaza found that armed groups repeatedly fired rockets from densely populated areas, near homes, businesses, and a hotel, unnecessarily placing civilians in the vicinity at grave risk from Israeli counter-fire.
Are you accusing Human Rights Watch of lying? Because that’s who I quoted. Amnesty International also found no evidence to corroborate the accusations of “human shields.” In the paragraph below from this source.
Placement of rockets does not qualify as a human shield, per Amnesty International. And while we’re ignoring other evidence, should we consider Israel’s use of “human shields”.
I like this game. I have the truth on my side, so I will always win.
Looks like you’ve quoted a biased source making your evidence null. Your accusation is now baseless. Thanks for playing by your own rules.
Read ‘em and weep. Thanks for playing.
Oh goody, thanks for providing a source proving my point. I guess you didn’t actually read it yourself.
Failed Fact Check
None in the Last 5 years
Overall, we rate B’Tselem Left Biased based on story selection and editorial positions that favor the left. We also rate them as mostly factual in reporting due to not always sourcing information.
Israel’s regime of apartheid and occupation is inextricably bound up in human rights violations. B’Tselem strives to end this regime, as that is the only way forward to a future in which human rights, democracy, liberty and equality are ensured to all people, both Palestinian and Israeli, living between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea.
Glad to know where you stand.
We reviewed the article “Parched: Israel’s Policy of water deprivation in the West Bank.” It discusses the significant water usage disparity between Israelis and Palestinians, attributing it to Israel’s discriminatory policy. The body and the headline use strong, emotionally loaded language, indicating a clear bias against the Israeli government’s policies. The headline suggests that Israel’s water deprivation in the West Bank is deliberate, setting a critical tone towards these policies.
Right from your own link. Just a biased source aimed at hate speech against Israel. Your quote only enforces that.
