LOL the meme is just abou the twisted logic of The Times of Israel. No one is downplaying any crimes. Same “experts” Israel has will always make Israel look good and make Hamas look like ISIS (which we all know is an unfair comparison). Hamas commited war crimes, but are they genocide? The Times of Israel and Israeli propaganda want to toy around with the word. "Oh! You think we are doing genocide? Na’aa! YOU are doing genocide, ALL OF YOU!!"
make Hamas look like ISIS (which we all know is an unfair comparison)
No, we really don’t all see that as an unfair comparison actually.
You cited Amnesty as a source you consider credible, so we can see how they reported Hamas were torturing and executing their own people much like ISIS/ISIL often have the brunt of their violence on dissidents among their own local populations.
Israel’s actions aside, Hamas on their own is a disgusting collection of bottom feeding psychopaths that have no place in any modern society. It’s weird as shit that it’s somehow become socially unacceptable to recognize Hamas as the pieces of shit they are as if we can’t simultaneously condemn their actions and ideology while also condemning the same of Likud.
The comparison between ISIS and Hamas (a claim no intelligent or respectable historical, anthropologist or political scientist will likely ever make in the way described here) is an idiological comparison, not an intellectual one.
We already established Hamas is bad, no one disagrees. But a step further is needed to excuse the unspeakable and unrelenting massacring of Gazans and the destruction of their homes. It’s to say, “LOOK! WE ARE FIGHTING (K)HAMAS-ISIS! THEY ARE LIKE ISIS!!! REMEMBER ISIS???”
A professor of Islamic studies at UMass Dartmouth literally wrote an article on how Hamas has recently adopted ISIS tactics and intermingled with them growing much closer, and primarily only highlighted the religious and ideological goals as the differences.
Some excerpts:
My long study of Islamic State fighting tactics, including field research in Iraq, leads me to believe Hamas has recently undergone a radical ISIS-inspired transformation that has not yet gotten widespread public attention. Prior to its Oct. 7 blitz, Hamas’ actions were limited to lobbing imprecise rockets and digging tunnels into Israel to kidnap or kill small numbers of Israelis.
But as University of Miami professor and expert in the study of jihadism Nathan S. French has noted in El Pais, “Hamas operatives – like other Islamist and jihadist groups – borrow, steal and appropriate tactics and strategies from other similar political, guerrilla, or militant movements.” And it seems that Hamas has borrowed tactics from ISIS.
It’s likely that Hamas learned from the hundreds of Palestinians who joined both the core ISIS caliphate in Syria and Iraq and the ISIS affiliate in the Sinai.
And despite their differences, Hamas officials have in the past met directly with leaders of the Islamic State in the Sinai. Those meetings were likely linked to collaboration between the two groups for specific actions that benefited their respective goals, such as weapons smuggling, undermining Egyptian government influence in the Sinai and transporting injured Islamic State fighters to Gaza for medical treatment.
In October 2023, an article in the U.K. newspaper The Times cited an intelligence official who said, “It’s clear that the two movements have worked together close enough over the past few years to copy each other’s methods, learn tactics and train on weapons they have procured together.”
This part is especially hilarious given your protestations:
On Oct. 7, Hamas fighters reportedly left black ISIS war banners at the scene of several attacks. There were also videos posted online that appeared to show Hamas fighters singing popular ISIS war songs as they stormed into Israel.
I’m saying pro-Zionists like the comparison because it makes killing civilians more palatable.
PS: from that same article you linked:
There are plenty of reasons for Israel to want the world to think Hamas is ISIS – including the hope of marshaling the sort of overseas support that led to the 2014 creation of the 86-member Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS. In fighting between 2014 and 2019, the coalition reclaimed all the territory the Islamic State group had seized in Iraq and Syria.
And it is true that the Oct. 7 attack displayed tactics that are remarkably similar to those of the Islamic State group. But as a scholar of ISIS specifically, and Middle Eastern militants in general, I am inclined to agree with those who say the comparison between the two terrorist groups overlooks their underlying differences. The similarities are on the surface, in methods and tactics – but their goals and ideologies remain vastly different.
I would say this is closest to my opinion. They even spell my point out (Zionists use this to make the killing of children look like a woopsie in an overly complicated situation).
“Another random kid” being shot to death with her family by the IDF who seem to have also probably killed the two volunteers trying to get her in an ambulance can never be justified. Not sure why you mention kids on the other side, unless you want to somehow make up an excuse for this war crime.
Do they call for the destruction of the Israeli people now living in Israel? No.
Do they call for pulling recognition from an illegitimate apartheid and colonial state founded on robbing Palestinians of their lands, lives, and future? Sure. And I agree.
As bad as Hamas are (and yes, they committed war crimes, plain and simple), they still are resisting an oppressor who butchers them at every corner and at every chance (which is legal under international law). I don’t think it’s possible to make a convincing argument on genocide by Hamas.
Don’t defend terrorists of either side
Don’t equate either sides, and don’t suggest that this is Israel vs Hamas when it’s clearly Israel vs every Palestinian dead or alive, in the West Bank or in Gaza, online or offline.
Nope and nobody is saying that. It’s the military nature of the targets, evacuation orders, and additional warnings that take most of these bombings out of the ambit of war crimes.
It’s okay to destroy all that civilians need to live thanks to this “disclaimer”. Yeah, totally makes sense. Totally not an attempt at ethnic cleansing. 👍
PS: what the IDF is doing is against international humanitarian law. But that’s fine… since they say they don’t break it, and you can’t possibly have been “tricked” by them.
So the fact that Hamas did war crimes is a license for Israel to do the same against 10x times more civilians in Gaza, is that what you are saying?
Fuck no. But it also shouldn’t be dismissed like in the meme.
LOL the meme is just abou the twisted logic of The Times of Israel. No one is downplaying any crimes. Same “experts” Israel has will always make Israel look good and make Hamas look like ISIS (which we all know is an unfair comparison). Hamas commited war crimes, but are they genocide? The Times of Israel and Israeli propaganda want to toy around with the word. "Oh! You think we are doing genocide? Na’aa! YOU are doing genocide, ALL OF YOU!!"
No, we really don’t all see that as an unfair comparison actually.
You cited Amnesty as a source you consider credible, so we can see how they reported Hamas were torturing and executing their own people much like ISIS/ISIL often have the brunt of their violence on dissidents among their own local populations.
Israel’s actions aside, Hamas on their own is a disgusting collection of bottom feeding psychopaths that have no place in any modern society. It’s weird as shit that it’s somehow become socially unacceptable to recognize Hamas as the pieces of shit they are as if we can’t simultaneously condemn their actions and ideology while also condemning the same of Likud.
Did Amnesty make that comparison or did you add it?
It’s patent from the facts.
The comparison between ISIS and Hamas (a claim no intelligent or respectable historical, anthropologist or political scientist will likely ever make in the way described here) is an idiological comparison, not an intellectual one.
We already established Hamas is bad, no one disagrees. But a step further is needed to excuse the unspeakable and unrelenting massacring of Gazans and the destruction of their homes. It’s to say, “LOOK! WE ARE FIGHTING (K)HAMAS-ISIS! THEY ARE LIKE ISIS!!! REMEMBER ISIS???”
Edit: typo
A professor of Islamic studies at UMass Dartmouth literally wrote an article on how Hamas has recently adopted ISIS tactics and intermingled with them growing much closer, and primarily only highlighted the religious and ideological goals as the differences.
Some excerpts:
This part is especially hilarious given your protestations:
Guess I gotta clarify my point:
I’m saying pro-Zionists like the comparison because it makes killing civilians more palatable.
PS: from that same article you linked:
I would say this is closest to my opinion. They even spell my point out (Zionists use this to make the killing of children look like a woopsie in an overly complicated situation).
Granted I should have better at phrasing it.
LoLed at this one
Well I’m glad I put a smile on your face, “EvilZionistEatingChildren”.
And while Zionists don’t eat them, they sure do shoot them to death in cold blood and then deny they were ever there.
Ah yes another random kid died.
Just like some other kids that died on Israeli side.
“Another random kid” being shot to death with her family by the IDF who seem to have also probably killed the two volunteers trying to get her in an ambulance can never be justified. Not sure why you mention kids on the other side, unless you want to somehow make up an excuse for this war crime.
Given that their stated goal is the destruction of Israel, yes.
Both sides are trying to genocide the other, Israel is just doing it at scale.
Don’t defend terrorists of either side
Is that their current stance? I don’t want to be the one pulling out the Hamas charter but here we go: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
As bad as Hamas are (and yes, they committed war crimes, plain and simple), they still are resisting an oppressor who butchers them at every corner and at every chance (which is legal under international law). I don’t think it’s possible to make a convincing argument on genocide by Hamas.
Don’t equate either sides, and don’t suggest that this is Israel vs Hamas when it’s clearly Israel vs every Palestinian dead or alive, in the West Bank or in Gaza, online or offline.
again, not defending any terrorists, but thanks I guess since that isn’t bad advice 🤷♂️
Nope and nobody is saying that. It’s the military nature of the targets, evacuation orders, and additional warnings that take most of these bombings out of the ambit of war crimes.
“Evacuation orders, and additional warnings” from the IDF:
Really funny when Israel thinks a “disclaimer” makes it acceptable to bomb and kill civilians right and left.
Not Israel, intentional law.
I’m amazed, @JustZ@lemmy.world. Just amazed at you.
It’s okay to destroy all that civilians need to live thanks to this “disclaimer”. Yeah, totally makes sense. Totally not an attempt at ethnic cleansing. 👍
PS: what the IDF is doing is against international humanitarian law. But that’s fine… since they say they don’t break it, and you can’t possibly have been “tricked” by them.