Speaking with CNN on Wednesday night, Trump transition co-chair Howard Lutnick repeatedly rejected the idea that vaccines are safe and suggested that there could be a future where the lifesaving medical tool is restricted from the market.

During one particularly heated moment with host Kaitlan Collins, Lutnick insisted that vaccines are “not proven” and shared that he had a more than two-hour conversation with notorious vaccine skeptic Robert F. Kennedy Jr. on the issue. Lutnick claimed that Kennedy—who has admitted that his brain has been eaten by worms and who posed a slashed-up dead bear cub in Central Park as a weird practical joke—would like to strip even long-standing vaccines from the market.

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Monday, Kennedy claimed that Donald Trump had promised him “control” of several federal agencies, including the Department of Health and Human Services. That level of control implies a Cabinet position, which would be difficult to obtain for Kennedy, considering that it would require Senate confirmation.

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Vaccines have proven to be one of the greatest accomplishments of modern medicine. The jabs are so effective at preventing illness that they have practically eradicated some of the worst diseases—from rabies to polio and smallpox—from our collective culture, a fact that has possibly fooled some into believing that the viruses and their complications aren’t a significant threat for the average, health-conscious individual.