I’ve been trying Lemmy for a little while and wasn’t sure how to feel about it.

Today, I wanted to start blocking the most high-censorship instances until I could find a fully zero-censorship instance and simply block all the ones with censorship. Filter bots, not people.

When I looked into it further, I found out there are no zero-censorship instances, because Lemmy relies on a broken “federation” system where each instance is supposed to be able to fetch posts from other instances, but it’s never been finished to reach a fully working state. Lemmy’s official docs say you can’t even do federation over Tor at all. This means it uses DNS, so it won’t actually allow Lemmy instances to fetch posts from each other freely, it just gets blocked instantly and easily, every time the authorities feel like blocking anything.

So you can only ever have the “average joe lemmy” and “average joe reddit” with everything approved by the authorities, and then “tor copies of lemmy” and “tor copies of reddit” where you have free speech but you can only reach other nerds.

People seem to think Lemmy is different because this weird censorship fetish is extremely popular and most of you are happy to see bans happen to certain people, not just bots, so a small Lemmy that censors certain people feels fundamentally different from a big reddit that censors more people. But it’s the exact same thing, it’s reddit.

When reddit was smaller, you could say basically anything you wanted there, they just wouldn’t let it reach the main audience. Then it got too big, and any tiny part of the audience you could reach would be too big, so they won’t let you talk at all.

Lemmy is now the small part of reddit where you can say whatever you want, separated from the main audience, until too much growth happens and you have to move again.

It’s not actually a solution to reddit. It’s not designed to be different, it’s designed to match the past today and then match reddit’s present tomorrow, while being part of a system that’s about the same in past, present, and future.

Last year, this year, and next year, you’re posting somewhere it won’t be seen by many people, and the system that charges people for ambulance rides is getting another year of ambulance ride revenue, facing no organized resistance. There’s no difference here.

Lemmy urgently needs federation between onion service instances and DNS addresses in order to actually do what most users seem to wish it would do: allow discussion outside what the corporate authorities allow, while outgrowing reddit & helping undo the damage social media has done to human communication.

Edit - I was banned from my instance, and before being unbanned, some of my comments seem to have been removed. I apologize if I hurt anyone’s feelings, but it seems pointless to try to discuss this topic here. I’ll give a few more replies, and then suggest any further responses be directed to me on nostr, where there are no bans. I’ve also had a good time posting on PieFed while I was banned, so I’ll probably keep spending time there. If anyone’s curious, I had a thread about this topic on PieFed too. Btw, instead of the misplaced focus on bots, I should have said filter spam, not people earlier in this post.

  • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
    12·
    12 days ago

    Yes, Lemmy apparently doesn’t work over TOR. But normal federation works.

    I don’t get what you mean by “normal federation.” Lemmy has a thing called “federation” that doesn’t work.

    You just don’t like how it works.

    Incorrect, but why depends what you meant:

    If you meant Lemmy’s federation, the issue is that it doesn’t work.

    If you meant some other federation system, I don’t even know what you’re talking about, and haven’t given a position on it.

    Lemmy is open-source software that anyone can use and host their own instance (not community)

    Why do you disagree with the dictionary’s definitions of the word “community” and Lemmy’s use of it in the UI?

    and set out the rules within that instance as they please.

    Incorrect. Lemmy doesn’t support Tor federation, so this doesn’t work. How many times do I have to repeat myself in this thread?

    But that doesn’t mean anyone is going to want to play with you if you have posting standards almost everywhere else doesn’t agree with.

    Whether that means that, wasn’t in contention - the only reason you’d pretend it was, is because you’re into gaslighting.

    And I never said anything about “playing” - the only reason you’d use the term “play with you” is because you’re into gaslighting.

    And you know I’m not the only person who’s against censorship - so the only reason you’d waste time trying to suggest I’m on my own, is because you’re into gaslighting.

    And you embarrass yourself severely with your standard of replies around someone like me, so the only reason for phrasing like “posting standards” is, again, because you’re into gaslighting.

    • Skavau@piefed.socialEnglish
      3·
      12 days ago

      I don’t get what you mean by “normal federation.” Lemmy has a thing called “federation” that doesn’t work.

      Yes, it does. Instances can choose to federate with each other, to share content.

      Why do you disagree with the dictionary’s definitions of the word “community” and Lemmy’s use of it in the UI?

      I haven’t read how Lemmy distinguishes between instances and communities and how they refer to them.

      Incorrect. Lemmy doesn’t support Tor federation, so this doesn’t work. How many times do I have to repeat myself in this thread?

      Not supporting TOR federation does not mean an instance owner can’t set out their own custom rules on the instance.

      And I never said anything about “playing” - the only reason you’d use the term “play with you” is because you’re into gaslighting.

      Dear me, it’s just a turn of phrase.

      And you know I’m not the only person who’s against censorship - so the only reason you’d waste time trying to suggest I’m on my own, is because you’re into gaslighting.

      Almost everyone on the fediverse disagrees with you. That’s the relevant demographic here.

      And you embarrass yourself severely with your standard of replies around someone like me, so the only reason for phrasing like “posting standards” is, again, because you’re into gaslighting.

      By “posting standards” I mean rules of an instance. If your instance allows abuse, slurs, insults, threats etc - you’ll be marginalised and isolated.

      • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
        11·
        12 days ago

        Yes, it does. Instances can choose to federate with each other, to share content.

        But it doesn’t work for the advertised / ostensibly intended purpose, of improving on the reddit model. That was the topic. Why do you keep pretending you can’t remember anything I’ve said? Just to gaslight me, right?

        I haven’t read how Lemmy distinguishes between instances and communities and how they refer to them.

        Didn’t ask. Why did you waste my time with this, and why is it right after a part where you quoted me asking yet another question you ignored?

        Not supporting TOR federation does not mean an instance owner can’t set out their own custom rules on the instance.

        Under the current model, you are incorrect. Not supporting TOR federation does mean an instance owner can’t set out their own custom rules on the instance.

        Dear me, it’s just a turn of phrase.

        Didn’t ask. Why waste my time with this? Just more gaslighting, right?

        Almost everyone on the fediverse disagrees with you.

        Didn’t ask. Why waste my time with this? Just more gaslighting, right?

        That’s the relevant demographic here.

        To who? To what?

        Not to anything I’ve said. Not to me. Guessing you won’t answer to who, or to what, like most of my questions.

        By “posting standards” I mean rules of an instance.

        Didn’t ask. Why waste my time with this part?

        If your instance allows abuse, slurs, insults, threats etc - you’ll be marginalised and isolated.

        Didn’t ask. Why waste my time with this part?

        Are you scared in the future, it will be abusers like you who are marginalized and isolated, instead of the people who work on revealing you to the public?

        • Skavau@piefed.socialEnglish
          3·
          12 days ago

          But it doesn’t work for the advertised / ostensibly intended purpose, of improving on the reddit model. That was the topic. Why do you keep pretending you can’t remember anything I’ve said? Just to gaslight me, right?

          The fact that the Fediverse is split up into different instances is the improvement in itself.

          Didn’t ask. Why did you waste my time with this, and why is it right after a part where you quoted me asking yet another question you ignored?

          Most of your questions are incoherent or loaded.

          Under the current model, you are incorrect. Not supporting TOR federation does mean an instance owner can’t set out their own custom rules on the instance.

          Presumably by “custom rules” here you mean “not allowing CSAM”.

          To who? To what?

          To the Fediverse. If no-one agrees with you here, you’re going to make no headway.

          Are you scared in the future, it will be abusers like you who are marginalized and isolated, instead of the people who work on revealing you to the public?

          How am I an abuser? What are you implying here?

          • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
            11·
            12 days ago

            The fact that the Fediverse is split up into different instances is the improvement in itself.

            Nope. Hasn’t solved anything so far, due to broken federation.

            Plus, there were already separate instances of reddit, using reddit’s open source code, if you don’t care about federation.

            Most of your questions are incoherent or loaded.

            Nope. This seems like shallower projection and lazier gaslighting than you’ve been doing so far.

            Presumably by “custom rules” here you mean “not allowing CSAM”.

            Nope. Also, not sure you know what “presumably” means.

            To the Fediverse. If no-one agrees with you here, you’re going to make no headway.

            Why waste time typing this shit though?

            How am I an abuser?

            You have wasted hours of my day gaslighting me.

            What are you implying here?

            Nothing. I’ll copy and paste what I said, which was explicit, not implicit:

            Are you scared in the future, it will be abusers like you who are marginalized and isolated, instead of the people who work on revealing you to the public?

            • Skavau@piefed.socialEnglish
              2·
              12 days ago

              Nope. Hasn’t solved anything so far, due to broken federation.

              Federation isn’t broken. I’m not bound by your rather broken understanding or expectations of federation. But it works as it intends to.

              Plus, there were already separate instances of reddit, using reddit’s open source code, if you don’t care about federation.

              And no-one used them.

              Nope. This seems like shallower projection and lazier gaslighting than you’ve been doing so far.

              Name some of my loaded questions.

              Nope. Also, not sure you know what “presumably” means.

              So what custom rules can an instance owner not implement on their instance?

              You have wasted hours of my day gaslighting me.

              Am I making you reply?

              Are you scared in the future, it will be abusers like you who are marginalized and isolated, instead of the people who work on revealing you to the public?

              This is a loaded question, tantamount to “Are you still beating your wife?”

              • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
                11·
                12 days ago

                Federation isn’t broken.

                Incorrect, refuted in my original post and many times repeatedly throughout this thread, including this subthread with you. You have made me repeat this and other related statements so many times. It’s pretty abusive behavior.

                I’m not bound by your rather broken understanding or expectations of federation.

                You can’t be, since I don’t have any. And another reason you can’t be, is because you can only be bound by your own.

                But it works as it intends to.

                Perhaps, but ostensibly not, and not as it’s advertised and commonly understood.

                And no-one used them.

                I didn’t ask.

                Why waste time typing that, without admitting how it proves wrong what you had said? Just because you’re a deeply dishonest person, right?

                Name some of my loaded questions.

                Why? What’s in it for me?

                Like last time, this is still a rhetorical question, because I haven’t forgotten you’re a nobody with nothing real to offer.

                So what custom rules can an instance owner not implement on their instance?

                “No spam, no anti-free-speech instances” as the only rule. Why do I keep having to say basically the same shit over and over? Why do you act like it’s hard to understand my original post?

                Am I making you reply?

                No, but it’s interesting that you’d ask such a dumb question you already know the answer to, right after quoting the part where I pointed out that you’ve wasted hours of my day gaslighting me.

                Seems like another attempt to be confusing, even though it’s pretty much just us here. Very mentally ill behavior, and that’s the truth, not gaslighting.

                This is a loaded question, tantamount to “Are you still beating your wife?”

                No, it was a rhetorical question, tantamount to “what can you personally offer anyone?”

                • Skavau@piefed.socialEnglish
                  2·
                  12 days ago

                  Incorrect, refuted in my original post and many times repeatedly throughout this thread, including this subthread with you. You have made me repeat this and other related statements so many times. It’s pretty abusive behavior.

                  No, your comments on federation suggest you just outright don’t understand how it is supposed to work. It is working as intended.

                  Perhaps, but ostensibly not, and not as it’s advertised and commonly understood.

                  No-one else seems to view it as you seem to.

                  Like last time, this is still a rhetorical question, because I haven’t forgotten you’re a nobody with nothing real to offer.

                  Yet you keep replying.

                  Reporting for yet more insults.

                  • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.worksOPEnglish
                    11·
                    12 days ago

                    No, your comments on federation suggest you just outright don’t understand how it is supposed to work.

                    Incorrect.

                    It is working as intended.

                    Not sure why you’re making me repeat this, but: maybe. However, not ostensibly. Not as advertised. Not as commonly understood.

                    No-one else seems to view it as you seem to.

                    Why tell such a dumb lie when it’s pretty much just us here?

                    Yet you keep replying.

                    Reporting for yet more insults.

                    Ah, so that’s why you keep acting like there are other people reading this? You’re hoping mods or admins will ban me or remove my comments for some flimsy justification you’ve been trying to fabricate? Plausible. We’ll see.

                    Clever to keep driving home the point that I see through false advertising, in case you can bring a hammer down on me from some powerful Lemmy insider who’s scared of being exposed. I don’t really think any of them give a fuck though, it could probably work without all that cleverness, if it does work at all.