Was really surprised to see the difference in fumbles.

  • Tua: 3177 yards passing, 69.8%, 4 fumbles lost
  • Allen: 2875 yards passing, 69.6%, 3 fumbles lost
  • beall49@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Wow, I’m over here shitting on Allen, look at me being part of the problem

    • sek52@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Legitimately, and the numbers bear it out with percentage of turnover worthy plays, watch Allen. He’s absurd, and has played exceptionally well this season (with a few head scratchers in there, but almost every QB has that).

      And this isn’t even his final form.

      • ARusso64@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        It’s infuriating to see him hit Gabe Davis right in the hands, but Gabe clutched one second too soon and now it’s bounces 5 feet to the right DIRECTLY into a corner’s hand. Yeah. Totally Josh’s fault.

      • sex_panther_by_odeon@alien.topB
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        1 year ago
        1. The Bills needs people who can catch a ball. Way too many balls dropped.

        2. I am ok with interceptions on long balls on 3rd down. As long as there is no big return. It’s essentially a punt with a chance of a big play.

  • Jc2563@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Tua is just not a consistent in being a good quarterback, every-year is a up and down drama with him.

    • LEDZ100@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      He doesn’t. Almost every fumble was a result of a bad snap or muffed handoff.

  • Alstead17@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Interesting post OP, who, despite being unflaired, seems to exclusively defend Allen whenever they comment.

  • GimbleJ@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Tua has 22 TDs, 14 Turnovers

    Allen has 29 TDs, 15 Turnovers

    Both are turning it over too much for 11 games played. The main difference has been that the Dolphins run game is really good. Dolphins RBs have A LOT more TDs than Bills RBs.

    • DapperCam@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Dolphins whole offense and supporting cast is better than the Bills. The Bills just fired their OC mid season because he stinks and Allen still puts up these numbers.

      • why-god@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Bills have a better line, we have better weapons and a better playcaller. I refuse to get in the QB debate because both are good at what they do.

    • DM_yo_Feet_pls@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Thanks for writing this out more accurately compared to what OP posted. I was thinking Tua had 20 turnovers

        • GimbleJ@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          Yes. Tua has 10 INTs and 4 lost fumbles (14 total turnovers). Josh has 12 INTs and 3 lost fumbles (15 total turnovers). The post has total fumbles listed so Tua has 10 fumbles but 6 were recovered by the offense and Josh has 4 fumbles but 1 was recovered by the offense.

    • JadedCycle9554@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Does whether a fumble is lost or not really matter when evaluating QB play? Like obviously it affects the outcome of the game, but they still lost the ball, just because one of them got lucky and had a lineman fall on the ball more often than the other doesn’t make them a better QB.

    • Impossibills@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Allen has one of the lowest turnover worthy throws in the league, about 5 of his interceptions haven’t been remotely his fault

    • Entire_Egg_9122@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      The bills have 18 turnovers as a team a little under 2/3rds of the regular season, whilst the dolphins have 19. Last year in 17 games the eagles had 19, chiefs had 23. Bills would have just under 28 and dolphins just over 29 if their averages through the first 11 games held up for the remaining 6.

      Clearly looking at Super Bowl calibre teams, they both turn the ball over way too much, scoring is overrated as you can score every possession and be perfect as the QB, doesn’t matter if the other team plays the possession game properly.

    • medievalmachine@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Problem is that Allen clusters his scoring and turnovers. Feast or famine works for the defense and some position players but not QB1 in the National Football League, Boomer! Let’s throw it back to Gus.

    • Lv99Zubat@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Most total TD’s in first 6 seasons of a career in NFL history. Dictionary definition TD machine.

      • Cautrica1@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Someone’s gonna come in and mention mahomes redshirting his first year, and how the record would be his otherwise, so I’ll save them the energy. First or second in that stat is big time no matter what. And Allen is number one anyway. Haters gonna hate

        • Mampt@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          If you’re breaking a Dan Marino record (or even passing a Dan Marino top 5) that’s fucking good for a QB. Period.

        • purz@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          I think Mahomes getting to go straight into a super elite offense makes up for redshirting anyways.

  • Meadows14@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    Better metric is PFF’s turnover worthy play % (lower is better)

    Tua: 3.3% (19th best in NFL)

    Allen: 2.4% (6th best in NFL)

    If anyone is interested, here’s the top 5 and bottom 5 among QBs that have had over 285 passing attempts (basically at least half of games started).

    Five best:

    Dak Prescott (1.6%)

    Matt Stafford (1.9%)

    Joe Burrow (2.1%)

    Kenny Pickett (2.1%)

    Kirk Cousins (2.3%)

    Five worst:

    Geno Smith (3.9%)

    Josh Dobbs (4.0%)

    Brock Purdy (4.1%)

    Mac Jones (5.1%)

    Desmond Ridder (5.6%)

      • Pineal@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        He is really good at avoiding turnovers, and that allows us to win. He’d be an elite backup, come in, make safe throws, doesn’t turn the ball over.

        • JohnD4001@alien.topB
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          1 year ago

          I mean…it’s really easy to avoid turnovers when the only two places you’ll throw it are behind the LOS or 10 rows into the stands.

    • UglyDuckAI@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Five best:

      Dak Prescott (1.6%)

      I know most of you know that last year was weird, but it feels so good when its typed out

    • mmamma177@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      How do the dorks at PFF determine if it’s turnover worthy maybe they’re just tight window throws

      • Meadows14@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        I think on a case by case basis it could be muddy. For example they didn’t call any of Tua’s throws in that game in Germany TWP, even though I’m sure some were.

        Over a season though it’s fairly accurate, and a better - but still flawed - way of estimating how well QBs take care of the ball.

      • Jusuf_Nurkic@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Most of them are pretty obvious, it’s just QBs throwing the ball to a DB that gets dropped lmao. Even if it’s subjective and not perfect, it’s way more accurate than blaming a QB for an INT that bounced off of an open WR’s hands

    • floppysack182@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Weird when this stat was posted last week to credit Dak, all the comments were just critiquing there stat. “How can you measure turnover worthy plays? It’s completely subjective” etc.

    • SmallCondition1468@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Allen: 2.4% (6th best in the NFL)

      I’m actually a big believer in PFF and put more weight in system/ranking than the average redditor…

      But that is sus af.

      Allen out there throwing hopes and prayers on a regular basis. Hell, he should have had 2 more INTs against Denver alone. He’s a turnover-prone gun slinger and always has been.

    • thediesel26@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Should also note the most important thing is the ratio of big time throws to turnover worthy plays. Tua just about leads to league in big time throw rate at 6.4%. A 2:1 BTT/TWP ratio is elite.

      • SchrodingerMil@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Tua has been slinging it, of course that’s going to end up with more interceptions. You’re telling me a guy who throws it enough to hit 3000 yards in week 11 has a lot of picks? Who would have guessed.

      • Meadows14@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        From a grading POV he’s having the best year of his career.

        You have to wonder how much is being covered by his coaching and Hill, but at the end of the day, he’s the one throwing those passes.

        He’s having a great year. #2 ranked QB this year so far.

      • Doobie_Howitzer@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        They’ll get over it one day, in the meantime we have some fuckin tables to demolish

        Hope the players get home healthy and the fans get home drunk as shit

  • mikapple@alien.topB
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    1 year ago

    This is totally gonna sound like an excuse but the center transition has been rough to say the least

    • OfficialClassic@alien.topB
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      1 year ago

      Stupid a fumble under center counts against him but nowhere else to score it, shows how much context matters.

      • dfins891@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        Also fumbles in a qb running back exchange count against the qb. Tua’s fumble yesterday when he put the ball straight into the 5th string running back’s hands and he didn’t secure it counted against Tua.

      • elbenji@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        It’s not a turnover. It’s just a stat added. You should mark it by turnovers because it’s literally 2 for Tua and 3 for Josh. Which is more fair and even

      • NWASicarius@alien.topB
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        1 year ago

        It is an excuse. Allen spends way more time in shotgun and the Bills run way less RPOs. That context matters in regards to fumbles. Let alone starting RBs vs bottom of the depth chart