Was really surprised to see the difference in fumbles.
- Tua: 3177 yards passing, 69.8%, 4 fumbles lost
- Allen: 2875 yards passing, 69.6%, 3 fumbles lost
Wow, I’m over here shitting on Allen, look at me being part of the problem
Legitimately, and the numbers bear it out with percentage of turnover worthy plays, watch Allen. He’s absurd, and has played exceptionally well this season (with a few head scratchers in there, but almost every QB has that).
And this isn’t even his final form.
It’s infuriating to see him hit Gabe Davis right in the hands, but Gabe clutched one second too soon and now it’s bounces 5 feet to the right DIRECTLY into a corner’s hand. Yeah. Totally Josh’s fault.
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The Bills needs people who can catch a ball. Way too many balls dropped.
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I am ok with interceptions on long balls on 3rd down. As long as there is no big return. It’s essentially a punt with a chance of a big play.
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Winning covers up a lot of faults.
TBF the fumbles lost are more even. 2/3
Tua is just not a consistent in being a good quarterback, every-year is a up and down drama with him.
I have no doubt this was posted by a salty bills fan
Ok.
Playmaking QBs turn the ball over.
14 turnovers versus 15 & 22 passing TDs vs 22 passing TDs
Let’s cherry pick some more
didnt realize tua was turning it over so much
He doesn’t. Almost every fumble was a result of a bad snap or muffed handoff.
Now do how many fumbles were bad snaps
Interesting post OP, who, despite being unflaired, seems to exclusively defend Allen whenever they comment.
Tua has 22 TDs, 14 Turnovers
Allen has 29 TDs, 15 Turnovers
Both are turning it over too much for 11 games played. The main difference has been that the Dolphins run game is really good. Dolphins RBs have A LOT more TDs than Bills RBs.
Dolphins whole offense and supporting cast is better than the Bills. The Bills just fired their OC mid season because he stinks and Allen still puts up these numbers.
Bills have a better line, we have better weapons and a better playcaller. I refuse to get in the QB debate because both are good at what they do.
Funny way of saying Allen is clearly better ;)
Allen also has 7 rushing TDs and Tua has none.
Thanks for writing this out more accurately compared to what OP posted. I was thinking Tua had 20 turnovers
Can you please explain to me because I still get 20 when I add up ops 10 and 10. Are those numbers incorrect?
Yes. Tua has 10 INTs and 4 lost fumbles (14 total turnovers). Josh has 12 INTs and 3 lost fumbles (15 total turnovers). The post has total fumbles listed so Tua has 10 fumbles but 6 were recovered by the offense and Josh has 4 fumbles but 1 was recovered by the offense.
Bills run game is fine but JA audibles out of run plays all the time
Does whether a fumble is lost or not really matter when evaluating QB play? Like obviously it affects the outcome of the game, but they still lost the ball, just because one of them got lucky and had a lineman fall on the ball more often than the other doesn’t make them a better QB.
Allen has one of the lowest turnover worthy throws in the league, about 5 of his interceptions haven’t been remotely his fault
The Mahomes experience.
Down voted for PFF, I am guilty myself of scoffing at it when they said Allen has the most “turnover worthy throws” and now using it as an argument when he has a low amount of
He had a lot of turnover worthy throws last year though…
The bills have 18 turnovers as a team a little under 2/3rds of the regular season, whilst the dolphins have 19. Last year in 17 games the eagles had 19, chiefs had 23. Bills would have just under 28 and dolphins just over 29 if their averages through the first 11 games held up for the remaining 6.
Clearly looking at Super Bowl calibre teams, they both turn the ball over way too much, scoring is overrated as you can score every possession and be perfect as the QB, doesn’t matter if the other team plays the possession game properly.
Problem is that Allen clusters his scoring and turnovers. Feast or famine works for the defense and some position players but not QB1 in the National Football League, Boomer! Let’s throw it back to Gus.
Few of allens could have been from a rb easily.
Allen is a TD machine, none of these stats are surprising
Most total TD’s in first 6 seasons of a career in NFL history. Dictionary definition TD machine.
Someone’s gonna come in and mention mahomes redshirting his first year, and how the record would be his otherwise, so I’ll save them the energy. First or second in that stat is big time no matter what. And Allen is number one anyway. Haters gonna hate
If you’re breaking a Dan Marino record (or even passing a Dan Marino top 5) that’s fucking good for a QB. Period.
Didn’t Allen start only a handful of games his first year?
I think Mahomes getting to go straight into a super elite offense makes up for redshirting anyways.
Better metric is PFF’s turnover worthy play % (lower is better)
Tua: 3.3% (19th best in NFL)
Allen: 2.4% (6th best in NFL)
If anyone is interested, here’s the top 5 and bottom 5 among QBs that have had over 285 passing attempts (basically at least half of games started).
Five best:
Dak Prescott (1.6%)
Matt Stafford (1.9%)
Joe Burrow (2.1%)
Kenny Pickett (2.1%)
Kirk Cousins (2.3%)
Five worst:
Geno Smith (3.9%)
Josh Dobbs (4.0%)
Brock Purdy (4.1%)
Mac Jones (5.1%)
Desmond Ridder (5.6%)
Man I hate pff, but they say Kenny is good here so I’ll allow it.
Not really PFF is a joke
KENNY PICKETT TOP 5 BABY (end my suffering)
He is really good at avoiding turnovers, and that allows us to win. He’d be an elite backup, come in, make safe throws, doesn’t turn the ball over.
I mean…it’s really easy to avoid turnovers when the only two places you’ll throw it are behind the LOS or 10 rows into the stands.
Listen buddy I was promised Dak Pickscott
Five best:
Dak Prescott (1.6%)
I know most of you know that last year was weird, but it feels so good when its typed out
He had a broken thumb.
How do the dorks at PFF determine if it’s turnover worthy maybe they’re just tight window throws
I think on a case by case basis it could be muddy. For example they didn’t call any of Tua’s throws in that game in Germany TWP, even though I’m sure some were.
Over a season though it’s fairly accurate, and a better - but still flawed - way of estimating how well QBs take care of the ball.
Most of them are pretty obvious, it’s just QBs throwing the ball to a DB that gets dropped lmao. Even if it’s subjective and not perfect, it’s way more accurate than blaming a QB for an INT that bounced off of an open WR’s hands
The latter is the classic Lamar Jackson interception
Weird when this stat was posted last week to credit Dak, all the comments were just critiquing there stat. “How can you measure turnover worthy plays? It’s completely subjective” etc.
Allen: 2.4% (6th best in the NFL)
I’m actually a big believer in PFF and put more weight in system/ranking than the average redditor…
But that is sus af.
Allen out there throwing hopes and prayers on a regular basis. Hell, he should have had 2 more INTs against Denver alone. He’s a turnover-prone gun slinger and always has been.
You’re basing this all off the Broncos game where one of his picks literally went shining off Gabe Davis’ hands? Lol
Well no, it was Allen’s fault because he threw it too hard!!!
Yeah that comment thread on the video of it was insane
I knew Pickett was elite!
blame canada
Purdy can’t keep getting lucky right?
I’m guessing there’s a correlation between big time throws and turnover worthy plays
That boy be ballin
purdy elite
Should also note the most important thing is the ratio of big time throws to turnover worthy plays. Tua just about leads to league in big time throw rate at 6.4%. A 2:1 BTT/TWP ratio is elite.
Super unlucky is just the Buffalo football way
Are these free stats or need a pff sub?
Tua has been slinging it, of course that’s going to end up with more interceptions. You’re telling me a guy who throws it enough to hit 3000 yards in week 11 has a lot of picks? Who would have guessed.
We did want Tua to be more aggressive this seasons and, well, he is. For better or worse
From a grading POV he’s having the best year of his career.
You have to wonder how much is being covered by his coaching and Hill, but at the end of the day, he’s the one throwing those passes.
He’s having a great year. #2 ranked QB this year so far.
Tua thought he was taking tumbling lessons, turns out they were fumbling lessons
This is a funny tweet and Miami fans are soft for downvoting you
They’ll get over it one day, in the meantime we have some fuckin tables to demolish
Hope the players get home healthy and the fans get home drunk as shit
This is totally gonna sound like an excuse but the center transition has been rough to say the least
Stupid a fumble under center counts against him but nowhere else to score it, shows how much context matters.
Also fumbles in a qb running back exchange count against the qb. Tua’s fumble yesterday when he put the ball straight into the 5th string running back’s hands and he didn’t secure it counted against Tua.
We NEED errors in Football
It’s a fair argument for sure, not an excuse
It’s not a turnover. It’s just a stat added. You should mark it by turnovers because it’s literally 2 for Tua and 3 for Josh. Which is more fair and even
It is an excuse. Allen spends way more time in shotgun and the Bills run way less RPOs. That context matters in regards to fumbles. Let alone starting RBs vs bottom of the depth chart