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Cake day: June 15th, 2023

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  • Foxconn is not the municipal water supplier, the one you’d be dealing with if you don’t live in those barracks. Those high water bills are if you live in the “free” barracks, i.e. they’re fooling people into thinking the barracks are free (yay! I can keep all of my wages!) and then they’re getting billed for the shower by the litre or something. It’s scummy but TBH also quintessentially Chinese. Their roommates are probably telling them they’re stupid for believing Foxconn.

    And if minimum wage doesn’t suffice to have your own regular apartment, with non-extortionary water prices – well, complain with the CCP. Though, I have to add as a smug European, working full-time and not being able to make rent is also very much a thing in the US.


  • Yes. That’s one of the things you can criticise Foxconn for. Do it. Though they’re certainly not the only company in China who are fucking over employees, making false or misleading promises, etc. China does not have rule of law, grease some party hands and you can get away with a hell a lot of illegal behaviour.

    Also where in that article does it say that Foxconn would force people to live in the barracks. Not paying workers properly is one thing, actual slave labour, keeping people against their will etc. will cause the party to crack down on your operation, hard. Only they are allowed to do that.

    Or maybe you’ll dismiss this as Western imperialist propaganda?

    Do you take me for a tankie? Count the number me and you criticised the CCP in this thread and compare, please.


  • People don’t work long at Foxconn. Poor, rural Chinese get a job at those kinds of places to have money to settle down somewhere else, to open a small business, to re-invest into the family farm, whatnot. They’re thinking “I need this and this much money to open a noodle shop, if I live in barracks It’s going to take me X months to have the money together, if I rent an apartment X+Y months”, and then they do it.

    The whole migratory worker thing is a Chinese phenomenon, feel free to criticise it but most of that criticism should be directed at the CCP who are under-investing into rural areas at the expense of a couple of big, centralised, developments.

    Also how often do I have to repeat “employees are not required to live in barracks” until you acknowledge it. In fact, I’m going to answer nothing but that until you say it in your own words.

    How much is tuition in that place the dorm picture is from? I bet just living in the dorms is more than Chinese minimum wage.


  • I’m not American. I lived in a flat when studying. From what I’ve heard you can’t even cook in US student dorms that’d be an absolute no-go for me. Also, roommates are required and you get no choice in who that’s going to be.

    But maybe a better comparison would be to bunks on an oil rig… with the difference that Foxconn workers aren’t required to sleep in barracks, they’re free to sleep elsewhere. No such option on an oil rig. You also see temporary accommodation on larger construction sites. Or farmers offering bunk-beds to seasonal workers.





  • Not really. 14 in a year out of 1m employees makes a rate of 1.4/100k let’s see how that number compares to WHO statistics. Armenia has a rate of 1.4 in the 25-34 age range, and it’s the second lowest. China average in that group is 5.9.

    What you’re looking it is the suicide rate of people of a population which thinks it has a future: Students got into university, kids from poor villages made it into Foxconn to make money – yes, minimum wage, but they’re making money. Their alternative would be working on the family farm for much less than that (though including room and board). Or work in construction, a much more physically demanding and dangerous job. There’s not many options in China for rural people.

    There’s a fucking fuckton to criticise about Foxconn not to speak of China or tankies or capitalists in general. This isn’t one of those things. On the contrary, focussing in on a false narrative detracts from actual issues such as worker’s safety, forced overtime, the right-out military company culture, etc. When did you last hear about those things? Did you hear about them, ever? Nah, it’s always the suicides.






  • Define “mass tourism”. If we’re simply going by tourists per capita, or better tourist-days per capita, there’s plenty of places with very high numbers that are doing well – but those aren’t cities, much less vibrant ones. They’re things like mountain villages with ski resorts, with a couple of original farms offering a couple of rooms, a few smaller hotels dotted throughout, plenty of seasonal workers and when the season is over the whole villages resumes to what it has done for millennia: Subsistence agriculture. Maybe some forestry, and there’s also a sawmill. At a way higher living standards than would be possible by exporting cheese or whatnot.

    …not speaking about extreme places like Davos, though, nothing is normal or typical about that place. They’re also more than rich enough to afford public housing and democratic enough to actually build it, YMMV in otherwise comparable places.

    What basically never works out economics-wise is all-inclusive resorts: Those are generally built by outside investors, capitals thus flowing out of the local area, they may pay the local residents well in season but out of season they’re out of work and local non-tourist industry has to deal with not being able to afford workers in season. Some may be able to adapt but you can’t just shut down most factories, physically and/or because you need that operation time to pay back your loans. Thus the local industry gets killed off, or can’t develop in the first place. Not going to happen in that mountain village because it never had the chance to develop anything serious in the first place, geography and all.

    Oh, other example: Wacken. Just over 2000 inhabitants, maybe 6k taking surrounding municipalities into account, each year visited by 80-100k pilgrims. About 10% of the inhabitants flee during the festival, the rest is hustling. It’s short enough to not disturb the local economy yet brings in tons of money.



  • I mean, it depends. Sub-replacement birthrate means gerontocracy and you’re currently seeing where that is leading. Pensioners by and large aren’t great at changing things.

    World-wide population growth is going to stop naturally in the next couple of decades as the last big countries finish their demographic transition, after that there’s going to be at least a slight decrease and then stabilisation as industrialised countries figure out how to have replacement-level birthrates again. The earth certainly can sustain that many people indefinitely, with plenty of room to spare. Also at our living standards (minus cars plus public transit), and even with fewer working hours.

    If you don’t want to have kids fine don’t have kids but the climate argument is BS. Don’t think of it as producing a consumer, but producing a voter interested in the state of the earth 100 years from now.


  • Most of which is the Balearic isles (40% of local GDP), Canaries (32%), and similar. Barcelona has a way higher GDP/capita than the Spanish average, for the city at large tourism income is pretty much peanuts at ludicrous social cost. Every single employee there to do nothing but wipe tourist asses is lowering GDP, displacing a supercomputer researcher or whatnot.

    If you really want to see the Sagrada Familia or generally are a Gaudi fan fine, it really is the best place to visit for that purpose, otherwise, just go somewhere where your money is actually appreciated. Like, visit Extremadura. Poorest region in Spain, 4.3% of GDP is tourism, rest pretty much agriculture and power generation. Very good cuisine. Very dry heat as you might have guessed from the name.