You seem to repeat the same argument over and over. I believe you know you’re wrong. Israel can try to achieve this goal without making an entire area hell on earth for 2 million people. You know this. Amnesty international knows this. The UN knows this. The ICJ knows this.

Also, I want to point out a fundamental difference in our arguments.

You say:

Hamas wants to commit Genocide against the jewish people. This gives Israel the right to do whatever it takes to “take out Hamas” (whatever that means?), with however much collateral damage they want.

I say: Israel is commiting genocide against the Palestinian People. Nothing more. I do not, at all, see this as a reason for Hamas to wipe out the entirety of IDF killing however many innocent Israelis it takes. Do you understand? The many crimes of the IDF (which are facts, look up Israeli war crimes if you do not believe me) does not warrant the killing and starvation of Israeli children in the thousands.

Nor does the crimes of Hamas warrant the killing and starvation of Arab children in the thousands. Obviously.

Also, if a large amount of “genocidal acts” doesn’t amount to genocide, then what does? Is Israel allowed to commit the most horrendous crimes as long as it is in “good faith”?

I am probably just as steadfast as you, but I try to understand the views of the opposite side. You seem to do that too, given that you’re discussing with me. That is appreciated.

To answer your question: Yes it is still obviously genocide even if it is in retaliation. There are many legitimate ways of retaliating against a militant group - starving an entire population is not one of them. Israel could be conducting this war in a very different way.

Then why don’t they conduct the war in a very different way? Because they want to get rid of Gaza’s population, I say. See this, for example (although just reports for now): https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-reportedly-developing-plan-to-resettle-1-million-gazans-in-libya/ which also points towards the US complicity in the genocide. 1 million Gazans aren’t Hamas fighters. 1 million Gazans are just arabs/muslims, and that’s apparantly enough reason to force them from their homeland?

I see that this is the common point of view for people who sympathise with Israel. I strongly disagree with you but appreciate you wanting to discuss it.

It seems you belive you have to be convinced of to things in order to change your view: A. Genocidal acts are being commited. B. The genocidal acts are being commited with genocidal intent.

A: That genocidal acts are being committed is a fact. Carefully read through the wikipedia article above (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide) if you’re not convinced. Do it. Read the article.

B: You seem to focus on this. i.e that the actions taken by IDF are only powered by a will to protect the security of Israel, and that there is no intent of genocide. I don’t necessarily agree, but let’s say you’re right: Israel only does what it does out of security concerns. This does not warrant the genocidal actions commited. You can’t, out of security concerns, kill 10,000 children. This should be obvious.

Please reconsider your views.

Grave of the fireflies. I’ve only watched it once but out of all movies i’ve ever watched, it’s the one that made me the most emotional. Incredibly powerful.

How the US is enabling it: Sending money, weapons, intellegence etc to the Israeli military. The US is actively enabling the operations of the IDF, this is obvious and I do not think that anyone claims anything different. The US denies that a genocide is being commited, but they do not deny that they greatly help the IDF.

Why the operations of the IDF is considered genocide: See: https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-special-committee-press-release-19nov24/ or https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_genocide

Side note regarding sources and integrity of information: Do you believe that Israel is mounting a large intentional disinformation/propaganda campaign towards western countries? Or do you not believe any such thing? And do you live in the US?

I respectfully disagree. Note that we are talking about holocaust denialism, not holocaust support. The first is just very dumb, whereas the latter is morally despicable.

In other words: Supporting a crime against humanity is never an option. Denying a crime against humanity is always an option.

Talk with people! Discuss it with your friends! Be aware that they might have a very different outlook on this, so be patient with people. Here is a list of things to do when discussing this with people supporting Israel:

• Don’t berate them. These are your friends, not murderers. Direct your anger towards the actual murderers.
• Ask them if they believe Israel is mounting a heavy disinformation/propaganda campaign towards the west. If they do not believe this, it is relatively easy to prove, see example below.
• Show them the Twitter accs of Itamar Ben Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich. These guys are quite outspoken in their intentions.
• Show them examples of heroic acts of Palestinas, rather than just Palestinians suffering. This will help them respect Arabs, as that seems to be difficult for many Americans due to two and a half decades of Indoctrination that all arabs all terrorists.
• Also the obvious things (tens of thousands of children killed, not letting food enter, cutting off water, etc)

Example of Israeli disinformation: They created a fake hamas website (hamas dotttt com) whereas the real website was taken down from all of internet (hamas dottt ps). The fake one was heavily promoted by Israel’s official twitter acc and several Israeli government officials on twitter and recieved heavy traffic during Oct 2023-end of 2024. Use the wayback machine or similar for this, I believe both sites are down now.

There has also been many, many other lies by the Israeli government. Find proved examples and show.

I take it you do not believe Israel is commiting genocide? Or are you genuinely asking in which way the USA is enabling this?

https://zadzmo.org/code/nepenthes/

https://zadzmo.org/code/nepenthes/

Ah fair

Yes I’ve encountered it. I don’t get the bomb part though?

I don’t understand it, could someone care to explain? :)

Grave of the fireflies

Very very very odd law, is it not? Right to exist?? What does that even mean and why would a government force you to subscribe to it?

Someone: “I voted for what I belive in, which one of course should be able to do in a well functioning democracy”

Lemmy: “Nooooo you gotta vote for this one and only option, it’s the only way to protect our democracy (???)”

Guys the third party voters is not the problem, the two party system is. Come on. Voting third party or is a valid and important statement. Voting major party is legitimising an undemocratic system.

Riot against your government on the streets. That’s where you make the big difference - not in the voting booth.

Running free instances is a) way easier if you’re a government, and b) gives you important moderation control.

Also, a government running an instance that allows and promotes material that is very critical of said government could very well happen. It might sound contradictory, but allows for future control over “problematic” movements, if the need ever occurs.

Alright, I guess we simply have (somewhat) different opinions on the matter. Also I’m European so my general news intake might (should?) be less focused on domestic US politics and more on foreign policy.

It was nice debating with you, take care :)

You almost get me!

Vote for whoever you want! What I am saying is that your anger towards your peers who happened to indulge in different propaganda and voted for something different is misdirected.

The voters are not the problem.