I’m the chimney sweep now!

  • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    No WE did not. The people in those countries where it still happens allowed it to still happen.

    None of us have any decisionmaking power to control what those countries do, so the burden to fix those problems is on those countries who allow it.

    • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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      10 months ago

      It’s 100% a consequence of Capitalism, though. You’re blaming developing nations for the willful exploitation international Corporations commit and you personally benefit from.

      • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        That’s just your opinion. The fact is that those developing nations should have child labor laws in place, and proper enforcement of those laws to prevent children from being exploited. The blame belongs squarely on those who allow it, and I reject any personal responsibility for any of that because I have no control over the laws of any country.

        • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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          10 months ago

          It is not my opinion that international corporations brutally exploit the third world, it’s a fact. It is also not my opinion that Capitalism leads to this, the profit motive inevitably leads to it.

          You claiming that developing nations should just fight against international corporations brutally exploiting them and absolving yourself of any responsibility you have for it is just sticking your head in the sand. If you aren’t boycotting Nestlé, you’re supporting them.

          The “good” news is that there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism. You individually cannot do much, except protect, organize, and try your best to support less unethical companies whenever you can. However, to blame developing countries for corporations knowingly brutally exploiting them and offering no alternative is absolutely baffling.

          • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            The “good” news is that there is no ethical consumption under Capitalism.

            Such an absurd thing to say. I’m sure you’ll win lots of hearts and minds with your absolutist take 🙄

            • Psychodelic@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              Seriously! I mean, what if we only exploit a little bit of others’ labor? Isn’t that ok?

              • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                Sure, and when nobody wants to be a farmer in your utopia, you aren’t going to “exploit” anybody to fix that problem right?

              • SCB@lemmy.world
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                10 months ago

                I’m not exploiting you if we agree on a price for something.

            • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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              10 months ago

              What a way to say absolutely nothing.

              If Capitalism is inherently exploitative, then there is no perfectly ethical form of it. Therefore, it should be replaced with a better system.

              • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
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                10 months ago

                Do you imagine there is a switch somewhere? Like, right now we’re “doing capitalism” and tomorrow we could flip the switch and do something else?

                Everything exists on a spectrum, and you won’t find anything like “pure” capitalism anywhere.

                Id also disagree with the premise of it being inherently exploitative, but that’s a different topic.

                • Cowbee [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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                  10 months ago

                  No, I don’t think you can just turn on the Socialism, Communism, or Anarchism button and do those. That’s Utopianism. However, the idea that radical restructuring of society must be done via painfully slow iterative changes is also absurd and Utopian.

                  Capitalism is inherently exploitative, and that isn’t a different topic. Complaining about me saying that there’s no ethical consumption under Capitalism and yet saying you don’t want to talk about why that’s the case is just running away.

                  Capitalism is a bunch of mini-dictators competing, when we could have democratic and Cooperative control of industry instead.

        • Miaou@jlai.lu
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          10 months ago

          Are you 14? You don’t seem to understand how global trade works

          • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I’m a bit older than that and have actually studied Macroeconomics at the undergraduate level. Have you?

            • Miaou@jlai.lu
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              10 months ago

              Because a macroeconomics course is obviously going to be honest about this topic… Are you even serious?

    • UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      Yeah those countries just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and start being productive members of the world.

      I know we could help them out so they don’t have to go through all the hard times alone and without the knowledge we have, but fuck em hahahahahaha

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        But we are sharing knowledge and sending both aid and capital there. A lot of the countries are industrialized to the degree they are with the capital. Nobody acts in a vacuum these days.

        We could be doing more for sure but we’re not doing nothing.

        • UrPartnerInCrime@sh.itjust.works
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          10 months ago

          That literally has nothing to do with what I was making fun of that guy for. He was arguing we shouldn’t help at all. I was being sarcastic with him.

          I agree with what you’ve said

      • Meowoem@sh.itjust.works
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        10 months ago

        It’s a very complex issue, Western countries do a lot of things to help out less developed nations but we also do selfish things that makes life harder for them - unfortunately this is the reality of humanity, I am fighting my own personal ideological war against capitalism and the greed based system by which we live so I’m not defending it but it also has to be stated that other systems can have these flaws too.

        We need a cultural shift to fix these problems, an economic one isn’t enough on its own

      • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        The fact is that those developing nations should have child labor laws in place, and proper enforcement of those laws to prevent children from being exploited. The blame belongs squarely on those who allow it.

        • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
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          10 months ago

          What a strange take. You’re saying that if I, as a business owner, am fully aware that my production chain relies on slave or child labor in another country, I bear no moral responsibility because “well that country should have stopped it”?

          • RaoulDook@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            I didn’t say any of that bullshit that you’re trying to imply that I said. Those are your words only.

            Comments like yours are a detriment to social media. Don’t try to put words in people’s mouths. That garbage is far too common and you just dumped yours here.

            • ieatpillowtags@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              That’s precisely what you said, it’s nobody’s responsibility but that country. I merely pointed out an obvious example where your statement is false. Work on your comprehension skills.

      • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        Not sure who the “we” in this situation is, but I’m not demanding anything from them. They’re selling shit and I’m buying. I’m not demanding products from them.

          • Kusimulkku@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            You said “we demand money”, that’s what I’m replying to. I (nor you in the comment I was replying to) didn’t say anything about responsibility.

      • SCB@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        we demand money and offer that the only way they can make it is by exploitation.

        This is the opposite of outsourcing labor.

        • porcariasagrada@slrpnk.net
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          10 months ago

          lets say america finds the cure for cancer, they only accept dollars. you have to get those dollars. welcome to the global trade.

          • SCB@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            None of this has anything to do with outsourcing labor other than that you’ll have way more dollars than if you were a subsistence farmer.

            • porcariasagrada@slrpnk.net
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              10 months ago

              outsourcing labor

              if americans are using their time to find the cure for cancer someone has to produce food, someone has to mine the copper, someone has to etc… exploitation, the outsourcing of exploitation is a given in a capitalist system. if you are a subsistence farmer no cure for cancer for you in a capitalist system.