I agree, that’s why I said that God, the one who sent locusts and killed innocent children, submerged the world for 40 days killing everyone indiscriminately, and razed Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground, is the evil deity.
Sodom and Gomorrah deserved it, it was made clear in that by Lot existing. Everyone in the flood also deserved it, apart from Noah which is why Noah was saved. The “children” weren’t innocent or else God wouldn’t have killed them.
Judging from all your other replies in this thread, your stance is that:
Good deities don’t cause pain and suffering.
God did, but he was justified because they were all evil.
Maybe he killed a bunch of innocent people too, but he sent them to heaven, so it’s fine.
That’s some olympic-level mental gymnastics. I hope that, one day, you’ll think back to this discussion and realize your hypocrisy and free yourself from the religion of a god that has committed genocide multiple times, gatekeeps eternal life behind the worship of an evil entity and threatens all the others with eternal damnation for the only “sin” of not thinking like him.
Killing people is wrong, even if they are evil. It becomes even worse when it’s not a single homicide, but a large scale genocide of people whose majority (but not all) are evil.
You are living proof that religion is mental disorder and Abrahamic religions should be utterly abolished with extreme prejudice. You are the evil this world needs cleansing of.
I disagree with the notion that religion is a mental disorder. I myself don’t subscribe to religion or the notion of a god, but you need to be careful with how you say things like this as this will feed into christian feelings of persecution. This kind of rhetoric is exactly what the christian god has done. Cleanse the unbelievers because they’re evil. Do not commit the same failure that this other guy is. We can’t commit the same crimes as the proposed yaweh and think ourselves morally superior.
Hear hear. I’m often disturbed by how many upvotes these comments that show hate towards religious people in general get, and as much as I hate blocking people, I often block the posters on sight. I guarantee that if I still followed that religion, and heard someone say my beliefs were a mental disorder, it would do nothing to change my mind. In fact, depending on what phase I stayed in, I might decide to retaliate by spamming more threads with proselytizing in hopes of getting an even worse reaction to confirm that all nonreligious people are like that, that they were the ones who needed to change or be eliminated.
The christian persecution complex is a primary reason for abolition of Abrahamic religions. That complex is caused by the religion itself; it’s literally written into their canon. You’re advocating for spoiling and enabling an unruly child.
I’m not saying I’m feeding into their persecution complex. I was saying that you are. Telling them that the religion they identify so strongly with should be destroyed just makes them feel justified in their belief.
In any genocide, the perpetrators always have a ‘reason’. They’ll always be able to tell you that the people that were killed deserved it, and that it needed to happen, and that the world is now better off etc. etc. But saying it and thinking it doesn’t make it true. God can spew out justification for genocide all day. But why would I just take the word of a murderer? Especially if they are a super-powerful being who no-doubt had all sorts of other options available to them. Why would I take their word that suffering and death and destruction is justified when it is done by them - but not by others? And God doesn’t even bother to attempt to explain or talk about that to me. I just hear it from you, and other fans… which makes it even less reliable.
Well, there’s the Flood and the Ten Plagues (particularly that tenth one) for starters.
Then there’s the various war crimes committed by the Israelites at Jehovah’s explicit instructions (e.g. the genocide of the Midianites in Numbers 31).
Not disagreeing with anything you said, I just find it mildly amusing when people call things war crimes when they took place before the Geneva convention. There was no international agreement on what a war crime is at that time, so technically nothing was a war crime back then. They were free to commit all the genocide they wanted.
There is no reason to believe that Noah’s family were the only innocents in the Flood story. I do not know how one can pin the supposed hedonism of the world on all those young children who would have drowned.
There is also no way to excuse killing the children of thousands of people because of the actions of one man. Blaming that one man for “forcing” supposedly omnipotent being to act in that way is also unjustifiable.
And there is no way to shift blame for genocide by simply saying, “the underlings took it too far.” This excuse rings especially hollow when Jehovah asks for a cut of the spoils afterward (Numbers 31:25-31).
In the Sodom and Gomorrah story and the Jericho story, innocent people were saved. How would the great flood be any different? It’s illustrative of the extent of the hedonism.
I have a question, suppose that a different god or being did all the things said in the bible attributed to god. Are these deaths and atrocities still moral? Are they good because god did them? Or are they inherent good things to do? What if you were the one who started the flood or unleashed the plagues or anything else like that? Is the act still moral? Is the death of thousands if not moral at that point?
Nice little qualifier you added there. Cause it’s generally accepted that the God of Abraham ordained killing at least two million people prior to the birth of Jesus Christ. I get the sense that you’re perspective is that if God does it then it must be just and you want to prove anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. If that’s the case, you’re in the wrong place my friend.
Would the foetuses of any of the damned by considered guilty? I presume there must have been a few pregnant women murdered by that malevolent deity in that fairy story of your ilk (if you’re not on the wind-up, might I add).
The entirety of the Canaanite genocide. And since Hebrews were Canaanites themselves, that just makes them mass murderers who steal land through violence.
If going by Christian theology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by Satan. Even if fictional, there’s literally no redeeming qualities of Satan
Interesting, so who created the fruit of knowledge? Who then decided that we would die and feel pain? Who flooded the earth? Who took up a bet to torture job? And that’s barely scraping the old testament
Meanwhile, who offered food and water to a starving madman in the desert?
We decided we’d die and feel pain. We deserved the flood, and it was literally satan who tortured Job. satan didn’t even offer Jesus food, he just told Him to turn the rocks into food with His own power.
You missed a very, very important keyword there: “deserved.”
Theologians miss a key point of rational debate where they don’t provide proper definitions and make big assumptions that aren’t great.
Who defines what the “correct” effect of an action is? Who defines what consequence is deserved by a choice? If God is the almighty being, he decides what is right and wrong. In Abrahamic tradition, God defines all of these arbitrary rules and expects humanity to obey them without question. Shit, God ordered Abraham himself to murder despite that supposedly being against the rules.
God is like a kid that holds a magnifying glass focused on an arbitrary point near the anthill. He set up the conditions for us to hurt ourselves according to his arbitrary rules. Why didn’t he tell Satan to fuck off with the fruit? Why did he allow Satan to exist in the first place? If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything by our human logic. So God can fuck right off
While Zoroastrianism existed before Christianity, it changed it’s beliefs overtime to follow suit. Such as their holy book, the Avesta, dating to around 500AD with the earliest copy being from the 1300s.
“Disagreeing.” and “difference of opinion” is the same shield that all Nazis and authoritarian psychopaths hide behind. You can’t compete in the world of reason and reality so you have to insist that your fairy tales are true and then you genocide people over it. You killed 1/3 of Europe by burning witches and cats. You wiped out native populations for ‘god’s will’ and divine manifest destiny.
You killed countless numbers of babies by refusing medical care and insisting that prayer would heal them. You killed and tortured hundreds of thousands just for existing as they were born.
You claim I want to kill billions, but you already have.
I’m sorry and I’m not defending the actions of people who believe in chriatianity by saying this but, you cant blame the actions of a large group of people on one individual. You really need to look in the mirror. Much of the things you’ve said are abominable. Yes the things that christians advocate are also abominable, but you really need to take a step back and look at your own beliefs. Or perhaps ive misunderstood what you’ve typed. If that’s the case, i think you need to learn to word things less accusatory and ask more questions. Accusing someone will only put them on the defensive, and the conversation will stop there. You are putting the sins of the many, many different people and diverse beliefs on to one person that may disagree with some of them. I also dislike christianity but there is a big difference between a person and an ideology.
No, I want them eradicated for all the lies and psychotic bullshit they use to destroy lives and freedom and spread disease and poverty. What you are is evil.
Good deities don’t intentionally cause pain and suffering and drag everyone down with them. There’s nothing good about Satan.
I agree, that’s why I said that God, the one who sent locusts and killed innocent children, submerged the world for 40 days killing everyone indiscriminately, and razed Sodom and Gomorrah to the ground, is the evil deity.
Sodom and Gomorrah deserved it, it was made clear in that by Lot existing. Everyone in the flood also deserved it, apart from Noah which is why Noah was saved. The “children” weren’t innocent or else God wouldn’t have killed them.
“Good deities don’t intentionally cause pain and suffering. Unless it’s God, in which case mass genocide and killing children is perfectly justified.”
All of them were perfectly valid circumstances, lol
This makes you stance on abortion even funnier.
We’re not God so we don’t have authority to take a life (unless if it was to save another)
Dude, it’s all gods will - she is just acting through abortions to prevent future Sodom.
Judging from all your other replies in this thread, your stance is that:
That’s some olympic-level mental gymnastics. I hope that, one day, you’ll think back to this discussion and realize your hypocrisy and free yourself from the religion of a god that has committed genocide multiple times, gatekeeps eternal life behind the worship of an evil entity and threatens all the others with eternal damnation for the only “sin” of not thinking like him.
Killing people is wrong, even if they are evil. It becomes even worse when it’s not a single homicide, but a large scale genocide of people whose majority (but not all) are evil.
Do you realize that you’re justifying genocide on the pretence that people you never knew “deserved it”?
God knew them though. And it wasn’t because of their race, but because of what they did.
Also, how was Sodom and Gomorrah ‘genocide’? It had nothing to do with race
You are living proof that religion is mental disorder and Abrahamic religions should be utterly abolished with extreme prejudice. You are the evil this world needs cleansing of.
I disagree with the notion that religion is a mental disorder. I myself don’t subscribe to religion or the notion of a god, but you need to be careful with how you say things like this as this will feed into christian feelings of persecution. This kind of rhetoric is exactly what the christian god has done. Cleanse the unbelievers because they’re evil. Do not commit the same failure that this other guy is. We can’t commit the same crimes as the proposed yaweh and think ourselves morally superior.
Hear hear. I’m often disturbed by how many upvotes these comments that show hate towards religious people in general get, and as much as I hate blocking people, I often block the posters on sight. I guarantee that if I still followed that religion, and heard someone say my beliefs were a mental disorder, it would do nothing to change my mind. In fact, depending on what phase I stayed in, I might decide to retaliate by spamming more threads with proselytizing in hopes of getting an even worse reaction to confirm that all nonreligious people are like that, that they were the ones who needed to change or be eliminated.
Normal brains do not suffer from constant persecution complexes. This complex is literally written into the canon. It is, in fact, a mental disorder.
See also “the War on Christmas”
The christian persecution complex is a primary reason for abolition of Abrahamic religions. That complex is caused by the religion itself; it’s literally written into their canon. You’re advocating for spoiling and enabling an unruly child.
I’m not saying I’m feeding into their persecution complex. I was saying that you are. Telling them that the religion they identify so strongly with should be destroyed just makes them feel justified in their belief.
True colours.
In any genocide, the perpetrators always have a ‘reason’. They’ll always be able to tell you that the people that were killed deserved it, and that it needed to happen, and that the world is now better off etc. etc. But saying it and thinking it doesn’t make it true. God can spew out justification for genocide all day. But why would I just take the word of a murderer? Especially if they are a super-powerful being who no-doubt had all sorts of other options available to them. Why would I take their word that suffering and death and destruction is justified when it is done by them - but not by others? And God doesn’t even bother to attempt to explain or talk about that to me. I just hear it from you, and other fans… which makes it even less reliable.
Intentionally causing pain and suffering is kind of God’s ballpark though.
Where?
Have you ever heard of a lil’ book called The Old Testament?
That’s a collection of books. And where does God kill people unjustly?
Well, there’s the Flood and the Ten Plagues (particularly that tenth one) for starters.
Then there’s the various war crimes committed by the Israelites at Jehovah’s explicit instructions (e.g. the genocide of the Midianites in Numbers 31).
Not disagreeing with anything you said, I just find it mildly amusing when people call things war crimes when they took place before the Geneva convention. There was no international agreement on what a war crime is at that time, so technically nothing was a war crime back then. They were free to commit all the genocide they wanted.
The flood spared the innocents (Noah’s family) and the plagues were done because Pharaoh wouldn’t free the slaves, the blood was on Pharaoh’s hands.
God just said to avenge Israel. Moses carried out the rest of the orders.
There is no reason to believe that Noah’s family were the only innocents in the Flood story. I do not know how one can pin the supposed hedonism of the world on all those young children who would have drowned.
There is also no way to excuse killing the children of thousands of people because of the actions of one man. Blaming that one man for “forcing” supposedly omnipotent being to act in that way is also unjustifiable.
And there is no way to shift blame for genocide by simply saying, “the underlings took it too far.” This excuse rings especially hollow when Jehovah asks for a cut of the spoils afterward (Numbers 31:25-31).
In the Sodom and Gomorrah story and the Jericho story, innocent people were saved. How would the great flood be any different? It’s illustrative of the extent of the hedonism.
I have a question, suppose that a different god or being did all the things said in the bible attributed to god. Are these deaths and atrocities still moral? Are they good because god did them? Or are they inherent good things to do? What if you were the one who started the flood or unleashed the plagues or anything else like that? Is the act still moral? Is the death of thousands if not moral at that point?
No, because God created man so He has authority to destroy man.
Nice little qualifier you added there. Cause it’s generally accepted that the God of Abraham ordained killing at least two million people prior to the birth of Jesus Christ. I get the sense that you’re perspective is that if God does it then it must be just and you want to prove anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong. If that’s the case, you’re in the wrong place my friend.
The flood sounds quite like collective punishment.
They deserved it. Everyone but Noah, which is why he was saved
They did not deserve it, and the Egypt thing is a bald faced lie. They were never enslaved there.
If they were never enslaved there, then wouldn’t that mean the plagues never happened? What’s your point?
The innocents were saved from it
Would the foetuses of any of the damned by considered guilty? I presume there must have been a few pregnant women murdered by that malevolent deity in that fairy story of your ilk (if you’re not on the wind-up, might I add).
If anyone innocent was killed, they would have went to paradise anyway
The entirety of the Canaanite genocide. And since Hebrews were Canaanites themselves, that just makes them mass murderers who steal land through violence.
Oh wait …
Never heard of Satan causing any of those things. That’s god’s territory.
If going by Christian theology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by Satan. Even if fictional, there’s literally no redeeming qualities of Satan
Interesting, so who created the fruit of knowledge? Who then decided that we would die and feel pain? Who flooded the earth? Who took up a bet to torture job? And that’s barely scraping the old testament
Meanwhile, who offered food and water to a starving madman in the desert?
We decided we’d die and feel pain. We deserved the flood, and it was literally satan who tortured Job. satan didn’t even offer Jesus food, he just told Him to turn the rocks into food with His own power.
You missed a very, very important keyword there: “deserved.”
Theologians miss a key point of rational debate where they don’t provide proper definitions and make big assumptions that aren’t great.
Who defines what the “correct” effect of an action is? Who defines what consequence is deserved by a choice? If God is the almighty being, he decides what is right and wrong. In Abrahamic tradition, God defines all of these arbitrary rules and expects humanity to obey them without question. Shit, God ordered Abraham himself to murder despite that supposedly being against the rules.
God is like a kid that holds a magnifying glass focused on an arbitrary point near the anthill. He set up the conditions for us to hurt ourselves according to his arbitrary rules. Why didn’t he tell Satan to fuck off with the fruit? Why did he allow Satan to exist in the first place? If God created everything, then he is responsible for everything by our human logic. So God can fuck right off
Would you rather have free will or be a mindless slave to God?
So god cannot create a world with free will and without evil?
It won’t be true free will, in that case, would it?
Huh. I don’t recall being asked if I want to die
Do you want to follow Jesus who will give you eternal life?
That just sounds like extortion.
They complained they were never asked, lol, so I asked them
Oh no I didn’t mean I haven’t been asked by mortals. Are you claiming to be God?
Why does the distinction matter? I can still help show you to freedom if you’d like.
“If going by Nazi ideology, literally every atrocity in human history was caused by jews or immigrants.”
I think you have caught the stupid.
Difference is that Jews and Immigrants aren’t a character defined by Nazis. They existed before Nazism
And tinkerbell is a character defined by peter pan.
That would be a more accurate example.
The christian devil probably has its origins in Zoroastrianism (Angra Mainyu), which existed before Christianity.
While Zoroastrianism existed before Christianity, it changed it’s beliefs overtime to follow suit. Such as their holy book, the Avesta, dating to around 500AD with the earliest copy being from the 1300s.
You missed the point.
Your point being?
That god is an evil genocidal maniac.
How?
Are you going to play obtuse all day? I and others have already answered this.
You’re the same guy who wants to eradicate 4 billion people off the face of the planet for disagreeing with you
“Disagreeing.” and “difference of opinion” is the same shield that all Nazis and authoritarian psychopaths hide behind. You can’t compete in the world of reason and reality so you have to insist that your fairy tales are true and then you genocide people over it. You killed 1/3 of Europe by burning witches and cats. You wiped out native populations for ‘god’s will’ and divine manifest destiny.
Did I? I don’t remember ever doing that. Also interesting that the guy who wants to eradicate all Jews, Muslims and Christians is calling me a nazi.
You killed countless numbers of babies by refusing medical care and insisting that prayer would heal them. You killed and tortured hundreds of thousands just for existing as they were born.
You claim I want to kill billions, but you already have.
I’m sorry and I’m not defending the actions of people who believe in chriatianity by saying this but, you cant blame the actions of a large group of people on one individual. You really need to look in the mirror. Much of the things you’ve said are abominable. Yes the things that christians advocate are also abominable, but you really need to take a step back and look at your own beliefs. Or perhaps ive misunderstood what you’ve typed. If that’s the case, i think you need to learn to word things less accusatory and ask more questions. Accusing someone will only put them on the defensive, and the conversation will stop there. You are putting the sins of the many, many different people and diverse beliefs on to one person that may disagree with some of them. I also dislike christianity but there is a big difference between a person and an ideology.
What are you on about?
No, I want them eradicated for all the lies and psychotic bullshit they use to destroy lives and freedom and spread disease and poverty. What you are is evil.
Yahweh told Adam and Eve not eat the fruit of knowledge. Why and what is bad about the apple of knowledge?