This take is pretty dumb. If someone is taking hostages, and killing some hostages guarantees that the purpertrator can’t take future hostages, it’s a shorty but understandable tradeoff. In the context of of the Israel/Gaza conflict it is infinity more complex. Please read about the history of the region and the nature of the conflict.
Yeah no, the person behind the human shield wants to kill you and your family and is actively trying to accomplish said goal.
Yeah it’s pretty much the equivalent of the trolley-problem in real life.
The question is how many casualties are “valid” before the cost is too high - and that’s just a morally impossible choice to make prefectly
People that pretend it’s a black and white question and that either pretend the IDF is 100% wrong or the IDF is 100% right are just ignoring one side if the issue completely.
In general I’d say the IDF is more often right than wrong in this conflict but they obviously fucked up, too - but at least for them it’s not the intention to cill civilians other than for the people they try to actually get to
And so you’re justified in killing an unlimited amount of children to get to them.
Again, it’s the trolley problem. No one is saying unlimited amount.
It sure fuckin looks like Israel is saying “unlimited amount”
By what statement? By what action? “Unlimited amount” would be to not alert ahead of an attack on northern Gaza and catch Hamas commanders unguarded while destroying buildings with people still in them. What they did is provide a notice weeks ahead of the invasion of “we’re gonna invade you, run”. That’s literally the best thing they could’ve done in that situation humanitarianly, and the most ridiculous thing to do militarily.
Israel has stopped warning people. No text messages and no calls (not that there’s power to receive them) and no roof knocking.
They’re bombing the safe zones. They’re bombing the evacuation routes. They’re bombing UN schools and shelters. More children are dying per day in this conflict than any conflict in recent history. Thousands and thousands of children are dead or buried under rubble.
Stop defending genocide. You are on the wrong side of history and we will remember.
“You warned everyone weeks ahead but you stopped doing so now so you’re wrong”?!?!?!?!?
Are you serious? What more do you want from them? They did everything they could to alert everyone in Gaza that they were coming and the need to evacuate.
They’re making their own safe routes, transferring thousands of civilians through them. You really can’t expect more from an army, when its purpose is killing its enemies. Looks like they waste lots of time doing non-killing.
And the number of victims is terrible, but it’s the price of war, and it looks like the Palestinian leaders are more than happy to accept those numbers. War is a 2 sided thing, and you only blame one - and the one which is doing literally all it can to prevent needless death. While the other side, which you think is just, is parading dead bodies and advocating for true genocide “from the river to the sea”. What peace can there be with that kind of leadership.
History will remember this war like they remember WW2. Did Britain kill civilian germans? Lots. The number of german killed vs the number of British killed is humongous. Are they remembered as “merciless killers”? No. Because they were fighting objective evil.
So is Israel.
They’re bombing the safe zones you lying shit. No where is safe. The goal is to make Gaza uninhabitable so they are forced to flee the country and then Israel can annex the strip and make it part of Israel proper. Multiple politicians and government agencies have openly said this!
Ethnic cleansing through mass killing. Genocide.
Also? A multiethnic democracy, a free Palestine, from the river to the sea is not genocide. Making Israeli Jews into Palestinians is not genocide. Hamas wants to destroy Israel, which is a settler colony made from a British imperial mandate and it doesn’t have a right to exist.
But this is the most reasonable response.
If they realize that human shields aren’t working, they won’t use them and a more optimal number of people will be killed overall.
Also, any human shields you kill should be attributed to the people using those human shields.
Thats my take on this. I will agree to disagree with anyone who thinks otherwise.
PS: For all those replying: where did the words “Israel” and “Hamas” come from? I would like to bring to your attention that I didn’t cover any details specific to the conflict anywhere above… As far as I am concerned:
- Hamas is a terrorist organization
- civilians in Gaza are innocent
- Opinions about Israel are based entirely on Hamas reporting which could.be accurate or could be misinformation.
PPS: Lets play some mental games for a second.
Statement 1: X is mass murdering innocent people. And Y is trying to kill X.
Who is the bad guy and who is the good guy? X is bad Y is good.
Now let me reveal How X is mass murdering people.
Statement 2: X is doing so by putting those innocent people into the fire of Y on X.
You cannot tell me Y is worse than X after that. I don’t say that we can’t judge Y for attacking X under these circumstances, but X is never better than Y.
If they realize that human shields aren’t working, they won’t use them and a more optimal number of people will be killed overall.
Israel has claimed it is shooting through human shields for decades. Do you think Hamas is too stupid to realize that it doesn’t work?
Hamas likes it when Israel kills Palestinian citizens, because it make Israel justifiably look bad. Hamas wants to get other countries like Saudi Arabia and Iran involved in the war, and dead Palestinian civilians helps that goal.
That completely contradicts your original point, that “If they realize that human shields aren’t working, they won’t use them”
That wasn’t me who said that mate. Learn to read usernames.
Well fuck I just responded from my inbox. Whatever.
So you think Israel is too stupid to realize how bad this makes them look and they are playing right into Hamas’s hands?
the extremely flawed and utterly repugnant lack of “logic” is that,
“if using human shields works as a strategy, they will do it more often”.
“conversely, if we prove to them that using human shields is ineffective, they will stop doing it”fucking. nauseating.
So disgusting to see a correct and balanced viewpoint I agree.
correct and balanced
what a fascinating, bizarre, blatant misspelling of “cracked, unbalanced”…
Ducking autocorrect ruining my day again! Ugh.
The IDF’s solution to bank robbers holding people hostage would be to blow up the bank
If that were the case, Gaza would be a flat parking lot right now.
When that mass shooter was in Uvalde they should have droned the school.
Better analogy would be the killer in uvalde using a kid as a human shield while also shooting into the other classrooms trying to kill other kids.
Do you shoot back or do you sit around like the cops did and wait till the killer gets bored, runs out of ammo, or runs out of victims.
Just look up how many thousands of rockets and mortars Hamas has launched at seemingly random targets in Israel since October 7th.
The “rockets” you’re referencing aren’t the threat you’re trying to invoke. How many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets ever much less since October 7th? Maybe if Israel didn’t have a concentration camp outside of their city walls they wouldn’t have to worry about the threat of retribution?
Better analogy is the Uvalde shooter also starved and killed kids in the school for generations. Then some of the starving children started throwing sharpened pencils.
The “rockets” you’re referencing aren’t the threat you’re trying to invoke.
So the rockets that killed
500100+ people at al-Ahli hospital aren’t that big of a threat?https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/
Do go on…
Better analogy would be the killer in uvalde using a kid as a human shield while also shooting into the other classrooms trying to kill other kids.
Sure, and then you bomb the school to kill them all. Also bomb all the surrounding buildings just in case.
The movie Blazing Saddles has a scene where the protagonists threatens himself as hostage. It worked. Movie Clip Not Censored https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTNJUjsNKVk&t=153s
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Look, we all know that if Israel wanted to kill two million people in Gaza, no one in the world could stop them. Not saying it’s okay that even 0.5% have been killed because that is still a horrifying number. But the idea that they are indiscriminately blowing up every single building is just theatre of the absurd.
The arrogance is amazing.
That tiny country could be destroyed by a brisk wind and two battles with bad luck.
