Maybe I’m conflating two of the EU’s/reddit/Lemmy’s anti-tech ideas. Alternate app stores are horrible for consumers. Side loading without the ability to have an alternate app store is fine, but I don’t think that’s on anyone’s mind.
This opinion won’t be popular with the crowd on lemmy but it is absolutely true. People use Apple because they want the walled garden.
They don’t want a walled garden. They like Apple products because they all work together and the walled garden is a symptom of that that people have to put up with.
Alternative app stores and sideloading are only good for consumers. It means that Apple has less control over what apps people are allowed to download, they can’t take as much revenue from developers, and it has zero impact on those that don’t care, but a huge benefit for those that do.
Alternative app stores and sideloading is ONLY good for big corporations. Epic will not charge less for their products on their app store and it opens up the product for extremely poor security and an inconvenient user experience with shitier features.
Hi, I’m a person. There are apps that I would like to easily use on my iPhone that Apple won’t approve on the App Store. Those apps are written by indie devs. Many of them have a Patreon where you can support their work, but otherwise it’s done for free. I would like to be able to install their apps without hassle and would like to be able to have those apps automatically updated. None of this benefits corporations.
You’re missing my point. If side loading and alternate app stores offer a bad experience it doesn’t need to affect you. Just don’t use them and you will continue to have the same ‘walled garden’ experience that you currently enjoy. If other users choose to use them and have a bad experience, that’s their choice!
It will affect everyone. All it takes is one big company deciding they’re better at distributing their apps via some untrusted channel, or better yet, their own channel, and everyone who uses it are required to install the untrusted store.
“But it doesn’t affect me!”
Not true at all. Vast majority of people are forced one way or another to install a third party messenger due to that one older family member who only knows that one app because it’s popular where they live; vast majority of people gets mandated to install something on their phone as required by work place (MFA/VPN/expenses app/HR for PTO etc); vast majority of people are required to install some governmental entity mandated app (passport application/visa exempt entry/social services/etc)….
List of “mandatory” apps goes on. Even if you only need it for a little bit of time, now you’ve got the store on your phone, ready to open up potential to bring in other not so mandatory and less than desirable apps.
Apple is not great at vetting apps, there are terrible apps on the App Store that I’d like see removed, but they’ve got decade+ of experience in heuristic detections to prevent most bad apps from making it to our phones. They’ve also got way more resources to act against bad actors than any other company in the world. I can trust that I’m not going to get a fake / modified bank app when I download it from the official App Store. That same guarantee isn’t there with third party untrusted channels.
It will likely be very unpopular opinion here, given how Lemmy is much more FOSS and self hosted happy (I’d know, I’m self hosting it and spends more time in those communities than anywhere else), but I for one do not want side loading or third party stores to become a thing.
Edit:
Ironically, the bad third party stores will be waaaaay more popular to non-tech savvy people, because “Mark says to get apps here for cheaper” or “Mav said this is better”. The actual tech savvy users will have better security awareness, but vast majority of people aren’t, and will end up getting hurt by this.
Edit 2, after @therealrjp@lemm.ee already downvoted but staying quiet:
I forgot this earlier. In order to gain access to certain features, such as being allowed to render on CarPlay display, you’d need a special entitlement signed by the App Store, just like IAP receipts etc. – in the current case, that is Apple; in unofficial third party case, that’d be the third party running the store. iOS doesn’t only gate public features like CarPlay rendering using entitlements; many security features are bypassed for official apps using the same mechanism. If you search for security in the extracted entitlement database, you’ll see things like com.apple.private.security.bootpolicy, com.apple.private.security.no-container, com.apple.private.security.no-standbox, com.apple.private.security.storage.CallHistory, com.apple.private.security.storage.Location, com.apple.private.security.storage.Lockdown, com.apple.private.security.storage.Messages, com.apple.security.device.camera, com.apple.security.device.microphone, com.apple.security.personal-information.addressbook,com.apple.security.personal-information.calendars, com.apple.security.personal-information.location,com.apple.security.personal-information.photos-library and many many other fun entitlements that grants things you’d otherwise not want untrusted parties to get access to. We’ve already touched on government entities might require you to install some specific app. It is also well known that Russia runs their own App Store. I wonder how long it would take before any rogue entity running a store start to distribute legitimate spywares?
I hope never. It is awful for consumers.
How so? If you don’t want to side load, then don’t. Others having the ability to do so doesn’t mean it needs to affect you…
Maybe I’m conflating two of the EU’s/reddit/Lemmy’s anti-tech ideas. Alternate app stores are horrible for consumers. Side loading without the ability to have an alternate app store is fine, but I don’t think that’s on anyone’s mind.
This opinion won’t be popular with the crowd on lemmy but it is absolutely true. People use Apple because they want the walled garden.
They don’t want a walled garden. They like Apple products because they all work together and the walled garden is a symptom of that that people have to put up with.
Alternative app stores and sideloading are only good for consumers. It means that Apple has less control over what apps people are allowed to download, they can’t take as much revenue from developers, and it has zero impact on those that don’t care, but a huge benefit for those that do.
I want the walled garden and use Apple products.
Alternative app stores and sideloading is ONLY good for big corporations. Epic will not charge less for their products on their app store and it opens up the product for extremely poor security and an inconvenient user experience with shitier features.
Hi, I’m a person. There are apps that I would like to easily use on my iPhone that Apple won’t approve on the App Store. Those apps are written by indie devs. Many of them have a Patreon where you can support their work, but otherwise it’s done for free. I would like to be able to install their apps without hassle and would like to be able to have those apps automatically updated. None of this benefits corporations.
Hi. Get an Android phone.
If you want a walled garden, just don’t sideload things. Problem solved
The first time Amazon tried to force me to use their app store to get an app I left Android and never looked back.
By forcing Apple to support anybody putting their own app store on it you are removing the walled garden and removing choice from the marketplace.
If you want sideloading, stay on android. It doesn’t affect you that I have and want a walled garden so stop complaining. Problem solved.
How is only allowing Apple’s App Store considered “choice”? What are you choosing?
I am choosing privacy, security, and user experience over Epic Games making extra money off of me.
That’s a false dichotomy. You aren’t giving up anything by letting other people sideload.
I am giving up privacy, security, and user experience by my chosen walled garden being forced to allow alternative app stores on the platform.
I already have the choice to pay significantly less for a worse product that doesn’t have these things and allows sideloading.
You are the one removing my choice.
You’re missing my point. If side loading and alternate app stores offer a bad experience it doesn’t need to affect you. Just don’t use them and you will continue to have the same ‘walled garden’ experience that you currently enjoy. If other users choose to use them and have a bad experience, that’s their choice!
It will affect everyone. All it takes is one big company deciding they’re better at distributing their apps via some untrusted channel, or better yet, their own channel, and everyone who uses it are required to install the untrusted store.
“But it doesn’t affect me!”
Not true at all. Vast majority of people are forced one way or another to install a third party messenger due to that one older family member who only knows that one app because it’s popular where they live; vast majority of people gets mandated to install something on their phone as required by work place (MFA/VPN/expenses app/HR for PTO etc); vast majority of people are required to install some governmental entity mandated app (passport application/visa exempt entry/social services/etc)….
List of “mandatory” apps goes on. Even if you only need it for a little bit of time, now you’ve got the store on your phone, ready to open up potential to bring in other not so mandatory and less than desirable apps.
Apple is not great at vetting apps, there are terrible apps on the App Store that I’d like see removed, but they’ve got decade+ of experience in heuristic detections to prevent most bad apps from making it to our phones. They’ve also got way more resources to act against bad actors than any other company in the world. I can trust that I’m not going to get a fake / modified bank app when I download it from the official App Store. That same guarantee isn’t there with third party untrusted channels.
It will likely be very unpopular opinion here, given how Lemmy is much more FOSS and self hosted happy (I’d know, I’m self hosting it and spends more time in those communities than anywhere else), but I for one do not want side loading or third party stores to become a thing.
Edit:
Ironically, the bad third party stores will be waaaaay more popular to non-tech savvy people, because “Mark says to get apps here for cheaper” or “Mav said this is better”. The actual tech savvy users will have better security awareness, but vast majority of people aren’t, and will end up getting hurt by this.
Edit 2, after @therealrjp@lemm.ee already downvoted but staying quiet:
I forgot this earlier. In order to gain access to certain features, such as being allowed to render on CarPlay display, you’d need a special entitlement signed by the App Store, just like IAP receipts etc. – in the current case, that is Apple; in unofficial third party case, that’d be the third party running the store. iOS doesn’t only gate public features like CarPlay rendering using entitlements; many security features are bypassed for official apps using the same mechanism. If you search for
securityin the extracted entitlement database, you’ll see things likecom.apple.private.security.bootpolicy,com.apple.private.security.no-container,com.apple.private.security.no-standbox,com.apple.private.security.storage.CallHistory,com.apple.private.security.storage.Location,com.apple.private.security.storage.Lockdown,com.apple.private.security.storage.Messages,com.apple.security.device.camera,com.apple.security.device.microphone,com.apple.security.personal-information.addressbook,com.apple.security.personal-information.calendars,com.apple.security.personal-information.location,com.apple.security.personal-information.photos-libraryand many many other fun entitlements that grants things you’d otherwise not want untrusted parties to get access to. We’ve already touched on government entities might require you to install some specific app. It is also well known that Russia runs their own App Store. I wonder how long it would take before any rogue entity running a store start to distribute legitimate spywares?