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Feel Fine, Vote Stein
I’m certainly not voting for any Republicans, if that’s what this post is trying to infer
Frankly, it’s incredible that’s what you arrived at looking at the post.
Nah the post is trying to advocate for not voting at all, which is the same thing as voting for Republican
By this logic, is dying the same as voting Republican?
Did you choose to die? No.
But you did choose to vote republican, by not voting.
Okay, so, committing suicide is the same as voting Republican.
Yes. Obviously.
God, what’s so hard to get?
/Sarcasm, cause you’re obviously arguing in bad faith
no, those who did not vote, did not vote. Nobody should be compelled to vote for genocide.
I can’t see the posted image. All I get is “Unable to load page”. Is that happening for anyone else?
Maybe your instance couldn’t load it? https://lemmy.ml/post/53841606 Try this link to see it from this instance?
Democrats are controlled opposition. It’s all bullshit. Don’t vote, buy a gun and ammo and practice your aim peeps
See the idiot walk. See the idiot talk. See the idiot write up their name on the blackboard.
See the robot walk. See the robot talk. See the robot write up their X on the ballot.
incomprehensible gibberish
It’s time for the biennial teeing of the football.
Inb4 some liberals start yapping “that you better try and kick the football charlie otherwise the Republicans will win”
Real question: what would you prefer? Its pretty clear we arent gonna riot. Its also pretty clear if people keep discouraging voting, we’re gonna have a republican majority again. Whats the point in voting for someone who 80% of the party isnt going to vote for, while 100% of conservatives vote for the guy their overlord demands.
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Surely there is something in between rioting and a farce of an electoral process where you pick which team colour does imperialism for you.
Peaceful national shutdown, but there’s excuses why that can’t happen as well.
It’d take two weeks, if around 60% in the urban areas did it. The Houses would run to impeach.
I legit do not understand what that would be. If we decide to vote for a third party as an internet collective, we split the vote between internet people and normies. Mamdani won because he made national news. I have 0 DSA candidates on my ballot. What would you like me to do, if not just vote blue and pray for a better candidate
I legit do not understand…
Peaceful national shutdown, the one thing very few of them talk about.
They either like the excuses or the dreaming about rioting, but anything useful that requires action is anathema.
It’s literally the only thing that isn’t violent and would get their Houses moving and it’d take about two weeks which isn’t even enough time to evict someone let alone starve (which they bitch about anyway) but there’s no willingness to make the effort or go through the hardship.
I love how the only political action you can conceive of is voting for pre approved candidates handed down to you. Joining a party that actually aligns with your goals, never. Engaging in political agitation (from something as simple as handing out fliers to organising rallies/events), impossible. No the only way to engage with politics is to tick off blue or red genocide before ignoring it for another 4 years.
You can vote for whoever you want comrade but the democrats are not going to get rid of ICE.
At this point it sure doesn’t seem like there is.
That’s by design. Stop accepting the options that are handed to you, and pick the other options that those in power hide behind the curtain.
I’d prefer if you didn’t try to get people to vote for genociders
I rather see more dead politicians. When politicians fear the people they work for the people!
Like a clockwork lol.
Did they really denounce it? They just were upset ice isn’t as well trained as the police… Police that are knownfor being just as terrible
yeah but they held up finding for like 2 months because those damn republicans wouldn’t allow for that training!
Bullshit. Do I need to spell out why?
Yes please
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025190
The One Big Beautiful Bill Act (the Bill that gave I.C.E. a huge budget increase), not a single Dem voted for it.
https://ballotpedia.org/One_Big_Beautiful_Bill_Act
Seems like a downward trend from the post 9/11 days.
Why?
When did ICE become yet another version of Gestapo?
I was going to write “instrument of opression”, but state is one by definition, so need to be more specific
“Institutional violence only bad when my favorite color team hate it!”
The day it was found.
The propaganda got completely wild, but the day to day operations didn’t change a whole lot, it’s just more public now
This should have like a billion likes but we worship idols and we like just looking good. Remember kiddos it is all about managing perception. Nom nom nom treats on duhhhhh visa cause I guess I was born yeasturd day. Loops poops and dupes. Rinse and repeat as the world burns. Tricks are for kids ya’ll.
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What are you talking about? The first term had people crying about kids in cages and the abhorrent conditions in the concentration camps at the border and the insane practice of separating parents from their children.
People didn’t mention that Obama was the one to make those camps, but before we get into that we gotta adress the basic reality that people were freaking out about how Trump was using ICE back then too. Fucked to talk about gaslighting while you’re denying basic reality lmaoThey were a gestapo long before Trump but they didn’t bother the white libs so it was OK.
Hypocrite libs don’t care about brown peopleOf course it has been weaponized, that’s the whole point of ICE, why else did Obama massively extend family detention leading to thousands of incarcerated children and an expansion of detention camps? It’s a weapon against people that don’t have documentation
There’s no gaslighting here liberal. Democrats help build the exact same institutions of repression as the republicans, and it was obvious to anybody with even a minimally functioning brain that these would be turned on the public sooner or later.
Did you vote in your Democratic primary for a progressive candidate?
Did you vote for a genocider?
Its so funny to me that they can just decide not to have a primary, lmao. Or decide to nominate someone who didn’t win the primary.
Good luck with that, lol.
I’m fortunate enough not to live under the burger reich regime.
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Yup, there are only two countries in this world, and everything that the dumb fucks living in the burger reich do to themselves is Russia’s fault.
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a foreigner, and thus I don’t have to take anything they say seriously” and other insane conspiracies for the right-wing mind.
Anyone who doesn’t want to fund genocide is russian.
Anyone who lives in the USA and wants their government to improve somewhat is russian.
Anyone outside of the USA who doesn’t want america to harm the people and other beings of the world is russian.
I’d love to see the pitch meeting. Did they flip a coin in 1991 to pick Russia vs Communism as the threat?
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I’m not right wing in the least
Doubtful
I just think convincing left leaning Americans that Democrats are as bad as Republicans is a tankie psyop to split the leftist vote.
Faux leftist not knowing what actually constitutes the minimum requirement of being a leftist, classic.
Are you sure you’re not American, with this American tier understanding of the left right divide you could have fooled many people.
I’m not right wing in the least
Yes, you are, as evidenced by your belief that those who dissent are evil foreigners
totally didn’t know I was on lemmy.ml teehee!
No one believes this.
Arguing for genocide makes you right wing. Arguing for the right wing party that is the democrats makes you right wing. Arguing that because someone disagrees with you they must be a foreigner and thus should be disregarded is a weird racist mentality and racism and xenophobia is right wing.
What you identify yourself as does not matter, what matters is what you do, what you say, what you support and last and certainly least, what you believe.Finally normal people just block an instance, it is very weird to feel the need to proudly declare the creation of your personalised echo chamber.
but there wasn’t a wide anti-ICE sentiment in 2017-2020
Sincere question because I’ve seen this sentiment on a few different topics recently: is the expectation for US politicians to follow popular sentiment? I understand the concept of representing your constituents but I have never taken that to mean making decisions based on the opinions of non experts.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding and what comments like this mean is that these things were not on the minds of the voters so politicians were not campaigning on it.
Does anybody know the names of the many many deaths under the drone king Obama or whoever?
No because they were Mexicans, Philippino or whatever.
Of course when they show up in white areas and even start killing white people the libs care, it’s big news and the victims get a name. Poor Renee and Alex!
These are your voters and what that comment means.
A bunch of hypocrites
Honestly. Nobody talked about ICE before 2024. Now it’s a household name.
Haha what the fuck? Really showing that you just started paying attention very recently
Wow just proving you’re a white liberal without any immigrant friends.
They’ve been a fucking menace since day one, but I guess since they only ever bothered brown people before it didn’t matter to you.
Liberals seriously can’t help but reveal their lack of object permanence
Lmao are you 12?? There were straight up riots because of ICE under Trump 1
Admitting to being uninformed isn’t a good look, lol.
I’m not american and don’t live in the states but even I remember this: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/black-lives-matter-ice/
According to a leaked internal government document, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) deployed more than 700 personnel in the Washington, D.C. area alone. Most of the officers were from U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). They provided “support” to other federal law enforcement bodies responding to protests in the city and near the White House.
See also, from 2018: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/journal/policy-beat/once-relatively-obscure-ice-becomes-lightning-rod-immigration-debate
While some of the sharpest liberal voices calling for ICE’s abolition have calmed, in part amid a recognition by leading Democratic strategists that the campaign could backfire, the agency has clearly been thrust into the center of a polarized national narrative in an unprecedented way. Attacked in some circles, the agency is being lionized elsewhere. Vice President Mike Pence recently told ICE agents they were “American heroes.” And eager to capitalize on a wedge issue important to its base, the White House on August 20 held a “Salute to the Heroes” of ICE and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, which like ICE is a DHS agency.
…
Thus, the issue turned into a litmus test for many Democratic candidates. Possible presidential contenders took up the cry next: first, Senators Kirsten Gillibrand (NY) and Elizabeth Warren (MA), and eventually Bernie Sanders (VT), who initially refused to call for ICE’s dissolution. Gillibrand also seemed to conflate ICE’s responsibilities with those of CBP, saying, “When we flip the House and flip the Senate, I think the first thing we should do is deal with the children who are being separated from their families at the border. I think we should get rid of ICE.”
And the pushback on Obama for his enforcement: https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrol-was-monstrous-under-obama-imagine
I’m also ancient and remember when ICE was created, and how scary the homeland security act was (and is) and the protests against it. It’s absolutely wild how normalized all that stuff is now.
You already memory holed Trump’s first term?
Enforcing immigration controls is bipartisan. How the controls are enforced is a hotly contested issue. Democratic and Republican policies on this are obviously very different.
Also the pre-Trump ICE is effectively a different agency from the current one. The budget is 8x higher and objectives, methods, priorities have totally changed.
It really isn’t?
Immigration isn’t evil. If your labour laws are good enough then it will not affect employment at all.
Y’all need to stop treating immigrants as the scapegoat, the villain is the people who say immigrants are the enemy:
The corporate business owners, the corrupt law makers, the billionaires.
I don’t follow this stance when looking at the image.
I believe the image is saying the democrats supported ICE until 2017 through 2020, when trump was in office. Come 2021 and the democrats are back in office, they continue to fund it. During the second trump administration, they are back to denouncing ICE.
I think funding is used here in the context of what the democrats were calling for during the first trump admin. For example in 2018: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/394978-warren-its-time-to-replace-ice/
Focusing on a wider range of candidates: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/some-democrats-with-eye-on-2020-abolish-ice/
However, by 2020 the views had shifted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/abolish-ice/
And after the election abolishing ICE was no longer a priority.
Do you think what ICE is doing now is a fundamental shift from caused the initial outrage during the last admin, rather than just a jump in magnitude?
Even if I imagine myself as someone who thinks reform is possible, I can’t understand how the view isn’t that by maintaining the status quo the dems have exercised terrible negligence. If the behavior of the first admin was so abhorrent, wouldn’t it be critical to ensure a future government couldn’t as easily do the same or worse?
Do you think what ICE is doing now is a fundamental shift from caused the initial outrage during the last admin, rather than just a jump in magnitude?
Certainly ICE has shifted from its typical operation in previous administrations. The asylum policy was overhauled. Thousands more ICE agents were hired to conduct militarized raids with little to no oversight. The degree of evidence required for deportation has been lowered. Judicial review has been curtailed and ignored. These are significant changes.
But the point I make is that the image presents a false premise. Democrats and Republicans agree that illegal immigration should be prevented. ICE is the agency tasked with this by each administration and it makes sense that it would be funded.
Feel free to verify this against the Democratic party platform by year.
If the behavior of the first admin was so abhorrent, wouldn’t it be critical to ensure a future government couldn’t as easily do the same or worse?
It’s not so easy to prevent a future government from doing something. Even constitutional change, which is usually a very high bar, can be overruled by a judge or ignored if people allow it. Maybe the best protection is an informed, active public like in France? Not really sure – what do you think?
Of all the years to forget the space between
I blame the Patriot act
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The US funded border patrol since 2003? Omg, I don’t believe it. wtf is this post supposed to mean? Blame Democrats? This post is removed.
wow this post got you scratched.
ableist r-word slur. Selective history, incurious about history and self-absorbed. You’re fucking pathetic.
I blame every American that voted for that orange shit or didn’t vote at all because they think Democrats are just as bad.
To the outside world, they are both just as bad. To the domestic, the only difference is how it affects white people. As marginalized communities always have it really shit under both parties.
Everyone who doesn’t fucking care about making things better or just too self centered to give a shit about the future.
No, you liberals only give a shit about YOUR OWN FUTURE and NOBODY ELSE’S. You lot are the definition of a self-centered ego.
Everyone that gave up because fuck it. Just let it burn. This is fine. The end of humanity is coming soon enough, but the world will heal after we are gone.
Yes, let Amerika burn, that is good actually. But it won’t be the end of humanity then, it’ll be what saves it. The world will indeed heal when you lot are gone.
🥈
ICE was formed in 2003.
Where you even born then? The same agency existed before 2003. That was just a name change. After 2001, everything changed. But it was nothing like what exists now. I’d like to see how you guys are doing anything to help humanity and not further it’s destruction. I agree most/all politicians are are selfish assholes. Most of humanity probably deserves to die off. Any number of man made disasters are ready to make that happen. The USA is already dying. China will likely be next dominant power. But just saying fuck Democrats is pointless. What does “join the revolution” actually mean? Just sow more chaos?
Where you even born then?
Yes, I talked about it elsewhere in this post: https://crazypeople.online/comment/11609820
The same agency existed before 2003. That was just a name change.
So the meme should have gone back further and said Immigration and Naturalization Service, U.S. Customs Service and assorted other government agencies? Would that be good enough for you?
After 2001, everything changed.
Yes, I know. Americans decided to allow unprecedented surveillance and militarization in exchange for maintaining their way of life.
But it was nothing like what exists now.
My mistake, I must have imagined Guantanamo.
I’d like to see how you guys are doing anything to help humanity and not further it’s destruction. I agree most/all politicians are are selfish assholes. Most of humanity probably deserves to die off. Any number of man made disasters are ready to make that happen. The USA is already dying. China will likely be next. But just saying fuck Democrats is pointless.
America is the only so- called liberal democracy where criticism of the political establishment is treated like an existential threat to humanity. Free to use slurs but not to dream of a better world, I guess?
What does “join the revolution” actually mean? Just sow more chaos?
I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time processing the immense violence happing within your country. However, my comment was “ICE was formed in 2003”. If that statement, providing a possible reason that year was chosen in the meme, is unbottling all these feelings, I’d like to suggest that it isn’t really my comment that is the problem.
The same problems always existing before 2003 which is my point. And every year gets worse. Every country gets worse. Every day the future gets worse and all you guys do is blame someone else. Blaming everyone else, minorities/immigrants is what got is here. Doesnt solve anything.
Yes, problems with borders existed before 2003. But this image is about Democrat support of ICE specifically.
What type of criticism is allowed?
I don’t disagree with the criticism. The only thing i dislike is the implication to that “there are no good choices” and we should just give up. That’s how the facists win. I also thought the meme was dumb. But tbh I was drunk. I am also new to this platform, so sorry if I fucked up the rules. It still amazed that anyone even read a comment from a noob and took the time to reply.
America is the only so- called liberal democracy where criticism of the political establishment is treated like an existential threat to humanity.
The UK is imprisoning nans for holding up signs saying they support Palestine Action.
That’s a fair comment, I wasn’t specific enough in what I meant. I don’t think it’s unusual for the state to suppress dissidents. That’s what states do, after all!
I know the internet isn’t real but the only exposure I have to americans is online, and they seem to think that people criticising the democrats are russian agents. Every day americans are so eager to suppress criticism and turn on each other, in service of maintaining the status quo.
Why though? You don’t even need to look beyond the comfort zone of imperialist states to see that electoral democracy can exist in places where people are free to form new parties and coalitions when the existing are not pleasing to anyone. Take the UK for example!
I’m not suggesting more parties are going to stop america from continuing to harm the rest of the world and their people at home. I’m just baffled by the idea that anything but uncritical support of one of the two teams you get to pick from is anti democracy. I think getting over that hurdle is the first step to solidarity and class consciousness.
I am no fan of the us and I live here. Ive hated politics my whole life. I totally get the hatred of America. I would leave if I could. And there are pockets of resistance here and I do what I can to support that even if it means voting democrat. I have to believe there is still a chance.
I mean this with kindness: my comment is directed only to the people who display the behavior I mention.
Oh, yeah, the US ideological state apparatus is extremely powerful.
I’m reminded of a joke:
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink. “I have to admit, I’m always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up,” the CIA agent says. “Thank you,” the KGB says. “We do our best but truly, it’s nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them.” The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. “Thank you friend, but you must be confused… There’s no propaganda in America.”
Of course this is the comment you respond to you monumental coward
China will likely be next
Lol cope. Sorry, but China is not on the verge of collapse, it actually has competent leadership and an educated population that isn’t poisoned by the insane individualist colonialist philosophy that lies at the root of the mind of people like you and the other average half-wits that make up the political base of the US.
I meant China will be next to be the dominant power. This was the last comment on the thread. Didn’t mean to poke you.
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