For those unaware how Health Insurance works in the states.
You can have health insurance all you want. Especially if this bill is recent, they will cover a large part of the cost, but most people are still on the hook for Usually between $1000-1500 of all healthcare before insurance REALLY kicks in. This is called the Deductible (and Out of Pocket) expense. You also pay a ‘Premium’, essentially a subscription cost that normally comes directly out of your paycheck.
For single coverage, just yourself, it’s about $1200. For family coverage, where your insurance covers everyone in your house, It’s usually double that. So ~$2,500-3,000.
So this person probably hasn’t had any bills yet this year. Once they pay about $1500 in costs, everything after that becomes (mostly) free. Depending on what you have, insurance will pay anywhere from only 80% - 100% of the cost from whatever the procedures and meds are.
Then funny part is that some places in America the cost is so high, this might be a situation where their insurance DID kick in already and their insurance is still making them pay that much. Or it’s a case where you get a bill for that much but your insurance hasn’t paid it yet… so it looks like you’re supposed to… so you do… then two months later you get a check for that amount.
It’s so. Damn. Silly. And I resent Republicans every day for it. That’s not even the Fascist MAGA Theocracy republicans. Just your stock standard ones lmfao.
$1000-$1500…?
Most people are on high deductible plans, so it’s more like $3000-$5000
Most
That could be true, but do you have a source for that? A significant portion of people are on Medicare/Medicaid, which usually doesn’t have deductibles that high.
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i can’t give you a source for “most people,” but personally my out-of-pocket is $6k for myself, $12k for my family. about the only thing covered before that number is met is yearly physicals. i pay about $500 a month for this (after my employer’s contribution). dental separate, no vision.
So if I had insurance like that and I actually had cancer I’d pay the first $2,000 and then literally all treatment after that would be free regardless of cost and then I just pay like the standard insurance price?
Presumably your insurance would then go up after that or does it only go up for other cancer related stuff?
well it depends.
for major surgeries, no. after you satisfy your deductible, you’re likely to pay a co-insurance on your procedure.
co-insurance is the percentage you’re personally responsible.
so lets say your procedure is billed by hospital for 50,000. and your co-insurance is 20%.
you would be paying 20% of the 48000, so 9600.
up to your “out of pocket maximum”, which can be like 15000 to 30000 or whatever.
if you’ve already paid like 10k already this year then you would just be paying up to 5k for ur cancer treatment.
confusing? yes. fuck health insurance so much.
No the treatment would not be free, most plans will also only cover a certain percentage of the overall procedure so on top of your annual deductible which mine for example is 7,500, there’s also certain procedures that are not covered at all and the rest of the procedures are at a 70-85% coverage, which is still better than them not covering anything I guess but still pretty dog shit for an insurance that you’re paying over $100 a month that’s tied to your employer
It’s pretty confusing, but basically your insurance won’t cover much until you meet your deductible for the year. After that, your coverage depends on the policies of your insurance company. Some stuff may be totally covered, some partially, some not at all. And there’s really no way to know what costs what until you get it done.
This is the part that drives me bats. For any other service in any other industry you can get a quote first, but for some fucked up reason healthcare in America doesn’t work that way. The hospitals and insurance companies just do whatever the fuck they want, and you get to find out afterwards if you could have afforded it, i.e. after it’s too late. It’s such bullshit.
Indeed, I hate it when people are like “you shouldn’t pay that much, you need to shop around”. Assuming you even have multiple hospitals to choose from, tell me you don’t get “I don’t know” 9/10 times when you ask about the cost of a procedure.
you can absolutely ask the hospital for a good faith estimation.
I really don’t understand why there is anyone against universal health insurance in the states.
Pretty much everyone is guaranteed to get major hospital bills at some point in their life. They are paying massive fees to insurance companies to line their pockets instead of hospitals to provide better service.
Sure, taxes will go up a bit to cover it, but what you’ll pay in taxes over your lifetime is going to be no where near what you pay in insurance and healthcare procedures.
I pay $0 annually for insurance, and I can walk in to see my doctor at any moment to consult on something for $0, and if something needs to happen I can get blood work and X-rays for $0, then go to the hospital for surgery for $0 (maybe a $5 parking pass).
You should also hate Joe Lieberman. He scuttled a public option for the ACA, which likely would have prevented a lot of the shenanigans insurance companies pull, as they would be competed right the fuck out of business with a robust public option. Japan has private and public insurance and costs are generally low for health care. Most kids get it completely free
IDK about how Japanese insurance works, but of course they will want kids’ healthcare free. If not then their already dropping population would drop even faster.
Those amounts you mention. The 1200-3000 dollar ones. Call me silly, but I have no clue if that’s monthly or annually. The whole situation there seems so alien. Healthcare, but also salaries and cost of living. (E.g., $45k/year is a pretty good salary here, while I think it is a junior-ish salary in the states, right? >$100k/year is rare as rocking horse shit here at least.)
Healthcare can’t be left to the free market. Simply because the demand part of the market isn’t free.
My country screens like 10% of total (mostly) boob-havers per year for free (the number would heve been higher if more ppl decided to get tested). So basically everyone is invited, with mobile test units (just big containers/trucks) roaming around the country for the elderly, or for a bit more remote villages, or just to spread awareness & make someone get screened out of convenience.
Honestly do not mean this as a troll, but each and every one of us should call our house representative and let them know that we would appreciate more assistance from them when it comes to how much we have to pay for our out of cost expenses.
https://www.house.gov/representatives/find-your-representative
Just stating our displeasure with the current costs here on Lemmy doesn’t help resolve anything.
Sadly, this is my representative.
The good news is he isn’t seeking re-election.
FYI, that double link as one link isn’t working right for me.
It throws up a harsh pop up with a close button that doesn’t actually work when you try to close it, and the formatting was all off.
I had to strip off the http one, and keep just the https one.
I had shitty insurance when I worked for a major retailer, and I had to go to the ER.
My copay was $300 plus 40% of the bill.
Turned out uninsured people making under $100,000 a year got a 90% discount at that hospital, so it was actually more than 4x the cost because I was insured.
Don’t protect the major retailer. Who screwed you
I’ve shared enough specifics about my various careers on here that saying exactly who I worked for at different periods of my life can really narrow down my identity.
That is beyond fucked
Might be cheaper to buy the equipment at that point.
But seriously: That is not at all what the insurance pays. Prices are ridiculously inflated to give ridiculous discounts to greedy companies. Patients and Doctors get the short end of the stick.
The insurance didn’t pay anything at all.
They negotiated the rate down massively, and then required me to pay 40% of the sticker price, so they get away paying nothing despite getting 500 a month in premiums between me and my employer.
Since September my wife has had about ten CTs, three MRIs, two major surgeries (the last one 7 hours long), one emergency surgery, weeks of chemotherapy and radiation treatments and about 8 weeks hospitalised including some time in the ICU.
Total cost: $0
Unless you count the cost of parking when I visit her in hospital, in which case I’ve spent about $170 USD
This is in New Zealand with a publicly funded health system.
In Canada and something similar. My aunt got breast cancer and my mum has since been diagnosed with leukemia. Of all the stresses they have dealt with, money has never been one of the things.
It’s absolutely cruel that we would do that to a human being in such a tough time. Why any nation would prioritize profit over someone’s well being is beyond me.
That said, Canada isn’t perfect either my son is diabetic and we still have a lot of profit inducing flaws. It’s just when you compare them with “the greatest country in the world”… Well nothing really compares.
Edit - changed pancreatic cancer to leukemia. No idea why my brain wasn’t working this morning. Point being fuck the BRCA2 mutation.
My wife’s experience and costs were about the same for similar breast cancer treatment in Canada.
Our parking fees are a bit more expensive…
Man what the hell is your wife going through…
A cancer diagnosis and complications from chemotherapy. It’s been rough on her but she’s an absolute trooper.
Oh, but we have the best healthcare system in the world (which is why I’m thousands in medical debt despite having good insurance with no sign of a diagnosis or treatment) and you have super long wait times in other countries (which is why I had to wait almost a year to get a new neurologist when my old one retired).
But hey, we keep the health insurance industry making money for its shareholders, so there’s that.
Ex wife was denied a mammogram due to having too many, according to her insurance company. Cancer runs in her family and doctors have discovered lumps they want to keep an eye on.
America is well overdue for a revolution.
the idea of a revolution is dead. there’s no way people are going to keep their digital limb aside for a moment to think that they are getting scammed by corporations everyday.
we’re frogs in the boiling waterThe “frogs in water slowly brought to a boil” meme is totally false. The frogs jump out when the water gets too hot for them, which is long before it’s boiling. Just saying ;)
thank you for the heads up, dark grey colour(or is f4 some musical note?).
All I can say is that there was once some site where I had great difficulty finding a valid username that wasn’t already taken, and this name worked.
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but shit like this is what prevents people from taking preventative measures.
Can confirm. Had my mammogram last month and they recommended an ultrasound because my breast tissue is dense. I’ve had it once before with no problems, but my husband’s company switched insurance providers and it kicked in January 1, so now the lab where I normally go isn’t in-network and every lab that is in their network wants to charge me hundreds of dollars. This is with good insurance. (My husband always picks the most expensive insurance package because we’re getting older.)
Money is a little tight right now because I’m in between jobs, so at this point I’ve given up. I’ll look into it again when I’m employed again but it’s just not affordable at the moment.
Its purposeful. It’s done this way so that there are legal ways of justifying the death of millions per year as they are deemed unprofitable.
Land of the fee.
In Sweden there is no cost for this whatsoever. Most things are free or have tiny bills. I’m not saying it to make you feel worse, just pointing out that America is bordering on not being a civilized country anymore.
As a bonus, we don’t have any Musks here.
Land of the fee
Hhh. Nice.
just pointing out that America is bordering on not being a civilized country anymore.
Looking across Pacific Bathtub USSA seems to be shitshow in every aspect of life. Meanwhile about EU I mostly say “EU, I belive in you!”
As a bonus, we don’t have any Musks here.
We do, but we call them Rogozins.
As a bonus, we don’t have any Musks here.
Don’t we? The “IF Metall” union would probably tell you otherwise
I mean, who are we talking about? I admit I don’t follow news much but which Swedish guy is rich like Musk? I know we have wealthy bank families and so on of course, or Axfood etc.
Fisk is talking about the Musk. He’s there, trying to eat your labor rights.
Ah yes. But he didn’t succeed. :)
we dont know that yet, its still ongoing
That’s great! I haven’t been keeping up with the news on that. What was the outcome?
I haven’t followed it but it’s hilarious to read about:
unions across Sweden banding together against the carmaker, blocking imports at ports and refusing to repair damaged Tesla chargers, among other actions.
Postal workers have stopped delivering mail to the company, including license plates. A local court of appeal also overturned Tesla’s attempts to have license plates directly delivered from the Swedish Transport Agency.
unions in Norway, Denmark, and Finland have now said they’re also ready to stop unloading cars from ships, according to the Financial Times.
Respectfully, punching down does nothing but make people who are suffering feel worse. Posting here about how much better you have it than us isn’t helpful. We already know how messed up it is here.
Do you know that though? Because the internet is flooded by Americans defending their shitty system.
Yeah I know. It’s just such a contrast between how the country markets itself VS reality. We have almost exclusively American and British TV here and it really is quite a shock when you see what the country actually is.
But if there is a world war, we will appriciate support from the US of course. One thing they are awesome at is armies and weapons.
One thing they are awesome at is armies and weapons.
You say that, but we couldn’t defeat a bunch of horse-riding semi-nomads with Kalashnikovs after 20 years in Afghanistan.
No but the US has always been bad at guerilla warfare. Same in Vietnam. Whatever nomads the US are fighting at the time are using intelligence rather than raw military power, and it’s the only way to fight a more powerful force.
Everything in this fucking country is a giant predatory scheme.
My wife and I have 'the best insurance in the city" we’ve been told by practitioners. Standard bloodwork costs me several hundred dollars.
*Best for them :p
First of all, I am glad you do not have breast cancer.
In the Netherlands…Every year or two a buss comes to our village where one can get tested for breast cancer.for free.
Please tell me, it’s the Brabant Breast Bus. If not, your country has failed.
Close.
It is the Borstenbus, which translates to Breast Bus.
But it is all over the Netherlands, not only in Brabant. So it couldn’t be called that.
Shame. Three legged alliterations are objectively superior.
On the bright side, I now know that the Dutch use the same word for breasts we Germans use for bristles.
Bristly breasts
I think this is one those situations where “I did all that for nothing” is way better outcome
Sometimes it feels like you should get something for all that money. Like maybe just a little bit cancer, to make the tests feel worth it.
This is sarcasm, obviously.
I feel like you are missing the point of OPs post. I think OP is complaining about the price.
I mean yeah by all means that amount is ridiculous and not acceptable in any level
Sometime last year I felt some lumps in my scrotum. worried it could be a sign of balls cancer, I went and had them checked. I have probably better health insurance than most people i know. Cost about the same. Outrageous. but hey, turns out i don’t have balls cancer so i guess it could be worse.
It could also be better. I don’t think that there is any Western industrial nation outside the US, where this wouldn’t be fully covered by your statutory insurance.
Hey! I did this same thing! Also cost about 6 or 700
Well, good for you. Some people do have ball cancer and don’t have $644 to confirm it.
It sucks. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
And there’s a lot of people who have to live with ball cancer because even if they could afford to confirm it, they couldn’t afford to treat it. And that’s a decision people make every damn day.
Hell, I have a well-paying job and decent insurance and I still have to decide when my kids cough is bad enough to merit a sick visit to his pedi knowing that it’ll cost $250.
One of my kids had an ear infection right before his annual well visit (which is covered). They did his hearing screening as part of the well visit and it was covered, but he failed due to sinus congestion left over from the cold.
So we came back for a re-test. Still congested, still failed. Come back again in a couple weeks.
Couple weeks later we come back and he passes.
Few more weeks later we received bills for $250 for each of the followup hearing tests.
The whole system is fucked.
My youngest child needs speech therapy because he’s nonverbal and should be stringing full sentences together by now. Speech therapy is entirely coinsurance based so I have to pay $95/appt until I reach the $2000 deductible then I’ll be paying ~$20/appt
These appointments are biweekly and started in November. I had a long conversation with both insurance and the therapy office to clarify my options. I found out the therapy office charges only $65/appt if you don’t go through insurance, reduced the appointments to weekly, while reducing all other spending I could to stretch it out, then come end of the year (open enrollment) I maxed out the flexible spending account at $3k for the year and verified the new year didnt drastically change the insurance coverage. I still had to lean on wealthier family to help me pay for everything but pretty soon we should hit the deductible and it’ll (hopefully) be smooth sailing from there.
I’m also thinking I should setup a HSA and toss some of the tax return in there when that arrives as another line of defence. My wife tends to treat our checking account as the “available budget” so I’ve taken to shuffling money into various other accounts as that’s far easier than fighting to get her to manage money better
Preface, I am not an accountant. This is my perspective and you’re welcome to take the advice or not.
The benefit to HSA is that it’s funded with pre-tax money (same as FSA, but HSA rolls over year to year and usually balance over a certain amount is able to be invested into some mutuals/etfs).
Big benefit of FSAs is that they are pre-funded at the start of the year with pre-tax fake money. So that’s there for you for the whole year (just make sure it’s all used up by the end). Think of it as a 0% line-of-credit that is secured by your salary/job, resets every year, and is paid automatically by pre-tax dollars.
I don’t think you’d be coming out putting your tax refund into an HSA, unless you are counting the post-tax deposit towards this years tax burden. And if you are claiming standard deduction, it may not even give you very much of anything.
If you can float the cash, better to put your refund in a 1yr CD or something. Even into a HYSA, you’d probably come out ahead over an HSA.
Keep in mind you can only contribute to an HSA if you have a HDHP. If you don’t have an HDHP, it’s not an option.
Keep in mind you can only contribute to an HSA if you have a HDHP. If you don’t have an HDHP, it’s not an option.
Forgot about this part. I just saw it was an option through my bank and thought it might be a good idea. If the bank one does require being tied to an insurance account then that won’t work since my insurance has too low of a deductible to let me get an HSA
HSA only has four requirements for eligibility, but three of them are “you are covered by an HDHP, no other insurance, and not medicare”
https://apps.irs.gov/app/vita/content/17s/37_04_005.jsp?level=advanced
If pre-tax savings is what you’re looking for, FSA is it.
Also if you do day camp or preschool for your kid, there is also DCFSA. They can pay for certain dependent care expenses with pre-tax savings…daycamp, after/before school care, and preschool, are some of the big ones for kids.
