I recently made a new account on lemmy.blahaj.zone, because I’ve been harassed and doxxed on my old account and I wanted a fresh start with a more lighthearted online identity that I could be more open about my gender identity on. I’d heard blahaj zone was good for trans people, so I made my account there. And yeah, autism@lemmy.world removed my post discussing neuronormativism from a queer perspective, but I hoped maybe “the trans instance” would be friendlier to trans people.
A couple days after making my account, I saw someone on Blahaj engaging in the tired old cliche of “I hate politics, there’s no politics on my social media and I want to keep it that way!” Well we’ve all heard the joke that the two races are white and political, the two genders are male and political, and the two sexualities are straight and political. Hatred of politics is a transphobic, sexist, and racist trope. And having sufferred harassment and abuse from people inside the queer community who “hated politics” and saw trans or nonbinary or xenogender identities as political, I knew this kind of speech was going to make bigots feel comfortable saying they also hate politics, and they think us trans people are it.
So, I responded to the transphobia. I started out by attempting to educate them on what politics actually means. But I was interrupted by the Blahaj admin Ada, who told me that politics is “anything I disagree with”, and that indeed politics isn’t welcome on Blahaj. This language was deeply triggering of my past issues dealing with abuse, and I knew from past experience this sort of thing is said by people who are getting ready to say some enbyphobic or racist hate speech. It is especially common for white queer people to talk this way to BIPOC queer people. I tried to reason with Ada, explained the history of the cliche, the trauma it’s caused many trans people, and the consequences this kind of speech will have on the community here, making us all less safe.
Ada wasn’t having it. She minimised my concerns by reducing them to my personal trauma while ignoring my wider concerns for others’ safety, and weaponised my PTSD to paint my opinions as invalid because I am mentally ill. She said she owns Blahaj, and she gets to do whatever she wants with it, and nobody is allowed to express a differing opinion, even one that protects trans people, because that’s politics. At the time I thought her concern was me speaking directly to transphobes and making them feel uncomfortable by calling out their actions, so I said I’d just report it instead, and she banned my account.
This behaviour protects transphobes, WILL lead to trans and BIPOC people being harassed on this instance, attacks and gaslights victims of trauma (my concerns can’t be valid because I have a mental illness), and forces out any trans person with a commitment to safety for the community.
The thread where all this happened: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/2143969
EDIT: The person who originally posted the transphobic views on politics is now misgendering me and calling me a “guy” despite me being very openly nonbinary: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/2319669. And I didn’t call them autistic at any point.
Well done if this is a troll post. If not, lol.
I started out by attempting to educate them on what politics actually means.
There it is.
Hey, Abigail here. I just want people to know the reason this guy got banned is likely because of a deleted comment not included in that thread. OP called me autistic for not liking politics. THAT kind of behavior is not acceptable on lemmy.blahaj.zone, so I reported the comment and let Ada handle it. Ada tried in good faith to reason with OP but it was clear they just wanted to fight. So yeah, they got banned. Ada’s a fantastic lady who’s been great at keeping the trolls at bay.
Don’t worry about it too much. From what I’ve read in this thread alone is enough for me to label OP as a troll.
I’m on your side, good mod. Thank you for your efforts in combating real transphobia and not this nonsense.
English default on the internet is male for strangers.
So you misgender every transfemme stranger you meet as a matter of personal policy? Your defence for misgendering me is that you do it to every trans girl and enby? And Ada is defending you?
I’m not a guy, I’m VERY openly nonbinary. FFS, my previous username was PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES and I told anyone who asked about it that I’m gay. I also didn’t call you or anyone else autistic at any point. Jeepers creepers, no wonder I got a transphobic vibe from you, you misgender anyone you disagree with. Is this your usual response to being called transphobic? Just confirming it out in the open?
I’m cis, but I use words like “dude” and “guy” to refer to anyone. I think the above commenter might be using the same logic
Actually, you’re right. You said I had ASPD, not ASD. Sorry about that.
That’s not the whole truth either. I said that voluntarily isolating yourself from all social interaction would be understandable if you had ASPD, but my thesis was that you do not have ASPD, you do not voluntarily isolate yourself from social interaction, and you love politics.
W all are guy and dudes. You are on the internet, deal with it. And that username, which is quite cringe, says nothing.
Lmao what is this? First time on the internet?
Saying this as somebody just reading the post, I don’t know the whole context.
Being somebody who is BIPOC, you’re not doing us much of a favor either by having an outrage across multiple corners of the fediverse. Take a breather. Seriously, zoom out and just consider what you are writing right now.
Hatred of politics is a transphobic, sexist, and racist trope.
…what if I just don’t like seeing news that only makes me feel angry or bad on my feed. People have different things they want to participate in and see. Just because you like it to discuss it doesn’t mean you should jump to accusations when someone doesn’t want to. Its a sensitive topic to begin with. I just come here to see tech, cars, and art.
I started out by attempting to educate them on what politics actually means.
This comes off very pretentious. Just let this one go bro.
Look, I don’t know what’s going on with this blahaj place’s moderation or whatever and its not my business. Just based on what I see here, you may want to take a good proof read at what you are saying and spreading around before you lead yourself somewhere that you regret. If you don’t like this blahaj server’s rules or anything, just leave. Its just the internet. You might find somewhere better suited for you if you just move your account to another instance. If you want to voice concerns, spreading posts like these across multiple communities isn’t the way to do it.
If you don’t like this blahaj server’s rules or anything, just leave. Its just the internet.
Yes, but, but …
‘What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they’ll keep being wrong!’
I really appreciate your advice
…what if I just don’t like seeing news that only makes me feel angry or bad on my feed.
That’s not the meaning of the word politics. Politics means group decision making. Every group is constantly making decisions, like “Where should we eat? Did we enjoy that movie? Isn’t this animal cute? How are we going to deliver the client’s product in two weeks?” Those are politics, and they are also the bread and butter of human socialisation. This other thing you’re talking about, bad news, that’s not what politics is. Sure, bad news is political, but that’s because everything is political.
The belief that bad news and politics are the same thing has been used to justify transphobia, sexism, and racism. Because the belief leads people to hate politics, and that means any bad actor can (correctly) call something they don’t like political and stoke hatred. Trans people are political because everything is political. There will always be a way to paint trans people as political because it’s true. So if trans people are political and most people hate politics, then all a bad actor has to do in order to justify hatred of trans people is call us political while being dishonest about what politics means.
That’s why dishonesty and mistruth around the definition of politics causes transphobia. That’s why hating politics is transphobic.
This is the definition of politics (Merriam-Webster).
You’re taking it way out of context. If I tell somebody we should go for a walk its not anything beyond just socializing. Please stop jumping to conclusions.
I’ll just leave it there. Not really here to go back and forth.
Your link says politics is “the total complex of relations between people living in society”. That includes asking somebody to go for a walk.
…what if I just don’t like seeing news that only makes me feel angry or bad on my feed.
That’s not the meaning of the word politics. […] This other thing you’re talking about, bad news, that’s not what politics is. Sure, bad news is political, but that’s because everything is political.
I feel you missed a chance to get a less aggressive perspective on all of this.
The other person told you they “just come here to see tech, cars, and art.”. Probably hinting at a casual experience, with little to no opinionated or controversial topics. Maybe they have a mental health too, maybe they have a super political day job, or whatever. There are many reasons for people to seek another experience on Lemmy than you do. This does not necessarily imply they are your political enemies and need a lesson from you.
The belief that bad news and politics are the same thing has been used to justify transphobia, sexism, and racism.
While in a specific way it is true that everything is politics, this does not mean it is okay to make everything about politics. You cannot connect a persons desire to have Lemmy without politics to justifications about transphobia, sexism, and racism. That’s crossing several lines.
Have you looked into non-violent communication?
OP is cringe af.
Ada was professional and clear in their responses and you are being argumentative for the sake of argument.
It appears you weren’t banned for transphobia, but for causing an environment that is not positive nor in line with what Ada is fostering. And tbh the less negative information on Blahaj zone the better, I want positivity.
I also would like my non political communities to be void of politics. I’m glad to see an admin actually stop that. None of the Reddit mods would ever stop political crap, even though it was against the sub rules.
Everything is political. Politics is defined by nearly every dictionary as the field of decision making and power in groups. Every reddit and fediverse community is a group. Those groups need mechanisms of controlling power and making decisions. That’s what politics is for. That’s what politics is. When you say you hate politics, you are making a political statement. You are trying to influence a group’s decision making.
I don’t think you’re going to get the attention you’re looking for here.
Everything is political.
And yet it is possible and fine to define which topics belong to a community, and which topics do not.
Note this doesn’t change anything about this group being political by your definition.
So if a group decides they only want to discuss cute cat pics, and specifically do not want to discuss social topics regarding humans (what people roughly mean when they express their antipathy for politics), that’s one of many ways to make a cat community. It’s still a political group in your book, necessarily. It’s still not okay to talk about labor unions in that cat community.
I agree with you, and I agreed with you yesterday when I was banned. That wasn’t the argument.
I agreed with you yesterday
I think we only had contact an hour ago or so, or I’m unaware. What I mean to say is, I’m afraid you might confuse me with someone else.
That wasn’t the argument.
Then why do you make that point so often? People tell you they don’t want to talk about politics, and you respond with ‘everything is politics’. While technically true, it’s a way to completely misunderstand what they said, get yourself into trouble and be annoying to everyone else in the process. People even don’t have to agree with your definition of politics. When they express their desire to not talk about something, it’s good advice to try to understand what they actually meant, not start a discussion about what the word means from your perspective.
I’m not mistaking you for someone else, I mean to say that the opinion you expressed is one I would have agreed with yesterday. I believe you misunderstood what the point of disagreement was.
When they express their desire to not talk about something, it’s good advice to try to understand what they actually meant, not start a discussion about what the word means from your perspective.
Well that’s not true. If someone says “Don’t talk to me about them F*****s, I hate them”, then the correct thing to do is say “gay people deserve to exist, you homophobe”. It’s always correct to counter someone when they spread a harmful message, with or without their consent. Because spreading harmful messages must be considered implicit consent to be challenged on them. You can’t have a functioning society otherwise.
People even don’t have to agree with your definition of politics
Yes they do. Trans people will be hurt if they don’t. Their definition of politics is propaganda created by transphobes, which benefits transphobes. That’s why it’s important. That’s why the speech is harmful.
As someone who supports the trans community, I think this whole thing makes the trans community look bad. There are real issues to fight, but this isn’t one of them.
My dude and guy… Those two nouns are pretty much universal.
Also not everything has to be political because it’s very tiring. Ada really tried thier best to reason with you but you continue to add fire to the pile. This ban is solely on you and your harassment. Take Abigail’s advice and touch grass.
Everything is political because that’s the definition of the word politics. Defining the status quo as apolitical is propaganda, and not everyone wants to deal with you spewing propaganda all over the place. Especially when it’s the same propaganda used by transphobes and repeating it will benefit transphobes.
Also I’m allergic to grass. I get all itchy. And if it’s been freshly mowed, I get a horrible runny nose. Maybe try a non-ableist way of phrasing things next time? There’s also sunlight allergies, agoraphobia, mobility issues, and executive function disorders like autism, anxiety, and depression that can make it hard to touch grass.
NGL you had me at first but this is one of the best trolls ive seen in a while.
I get it, you’re incapable of understanding that someone with different views than your own exists. Your world is small and you control the rules. Anything which contradicts your worldview doesn’t exist and must be some trick or deception.
👍
I don’t mean any offense, but you may want to consider if you’re experiencing these negative automatic thinking styles, because it seems very apparent from the outside looking in.
It’s not uncommon for these thinking patterns to arise in people with trauma, which you have stated you unfortunately have experienced. I’m not minimizing what you have and are going through, but your quality of life and clarity in thinking could be improved by addressing these tendencies if they do exist.
Everything is political because that’s the definition of the word politics.
Its only political if you make it political.
Maybe try a non-ableist
Sorry my man, but I really don’t care if touching grass makes you all ichty. Me standing out in the sun makes me also itchy as I have allergic reactions to it. But does that mean that I am not able to do it? No. Does that mean that I have to forbid others to make a joke on that? no. Do you try to gatekeep everything, trying to control the narrative? Yes, absolutely.
Its only political if you make it political.
You mean in the sense that politics is a social construct and we all have a say in its definition? Yes. But the alternative to defining everything as political is defining some things as apolitical. And that’s a dangerous worldview. I’m not interested in saying or permitting dangerous speech.
yes, politics is a societal construct. Imagine that…
Oh My God Who the hell cares?!
Your best move is to move on.
EDIT You got a 24 hour ban. It expired 9 hours ago. So you’re unbanned now. Move on.
Sometimes, after a period of time dealing with the day to day realities resulting from political issues, people just want to be somewhere where they don’t have to keep having to experience those issues, even in text form. Everyone needs a break for awhile and saying so is not an act of transphobia or any other kind of intolerance, its just an acknowledgment that everyone has a limit and needs to be aware of how stretching that limit can effect mental health.
deleted by creator
That’s not what the issue is. Nobody minds that anyone dislikes controversy. The issue is people being untruthful about what politics is.
If you’re going to get this caught up in worrying about exact definitions, you need to take a step back and accept that colloquial/informal usage of words often differs from their technical definition.
Social issues are hopelessly entangled with politics in the world we live in, it’s basically impossible to discuss one without the other in any real meaningful, practical way. Trying to make that distinction is really a purely theoretical exercise, it’s sort of a “spherical cows in a vacuum” situation, if you try to discuss politics without acknowledging the vast array of social issues that impact them (or vice-versa) you’re left with something too far-removed from reality that it has no real practical applications.
Now that kind of thing can certainly make for some interesting discussions with people who enjoy that kind of thought experiment, but you’re not going to find anyone who’s willing to have that kind of conversation in a space where it’s been made clear that they don’t want to talk about politics.
I accept the existence of the fact that some people believe politics means controversy. But I don’t accept the morality, justice, or rightness of that fact. It’s a bad thing that people believe politics means controversy. It should be challenged. Nothing good can come of agreeing with the propaganda of transphobes.
You cannot and should not separate politics from controversy. Politics is the means through which we address our controversies, and the controversies impact how our political systems operate.
If we didn’t have controversy, there would be no need for politics, we’d all simply agree and do what needs to be done without needing to discuss anything, appoint leaders, make decisions, etc.
Agreeing and doing what needs to be done without discussing anything or appointing leaders is politics! When everyone goes on r/awww and looks at pictures of cute kitty cats, they engage in the collective exercise of making a decision that the cat is cute. Why do people like agreeing that an animal is cute? Because humans are a social species, humans are designed for politics, and agreeing a cat is cute is a low-stress way for people to do the politics they were born to do. It’s play politics. Politics is in everything, we love politics and we always want to do it. Politics is everything. So you’re right that controversies are political, but only because everything is political.
How many people share your point of view ‘about what politics is’, and how many strongly disagree? What authority do you have on the subject? If there are many people using language differently, isn’t that alone enough reason to reconsider your uncompromising position?
Well no, that would be an appeal to nature fallacy. You’re making the argument that I should accept the world as it is, simply because it is. Most people think the word works that way, therefore it should. That’s a nonsense argument. The world isn’t perfect, and people shouldn’t define words that way.
You know, 30 years ago, the word “man” was defined as “someone with a penis” by 90% of the population. It was trans activists who changed the defintion. Your logical fallacy is the exact same one that opposed the progress of trans rights back then.
Nobody cares man. Why do you think this is the proper forum to air your grievance about a known shitty instance?
Stop visiting that instance. Problem solved.
Go back to reddit
What was your old username? Would be helpful to look you up in the modlogs
The alleged transphobe would be Abigail Watson, and I assume our OP is “PM_ME_FAT_ENBIES.”
I honestly don’t really see the transphobia, which feels a bit shaky for me to say given that I’m cis, but it looks more like OP went ham on a person saying that they prefer to spend their social media time scrolling cat pictures, sewing, and fanart, or well things like it.
Ada’s responses to me seem very well grounded. This in particular stands out.
And what I’m saying is that this sort of talk of the semantics of queer discourse needs to be opt in for your peers, because not everyone has the spoons to deal with that discussion. Some people are explicitly trying to get away from it.
Honestly, I kind of feel for Abigail. I personally have a pretty low tolerance for news, political or otherwise. They’re always presented in a sensationalist manner, and often just outright horrible. I just don’t have the energy to spend on things that ultimately make me feel miserable, so I try to shut it out.
And as I said in that thread, you can’t simultaneously hold the views that discourse should be opt-in, and that spreading transphobia isn’t discourse. Nobody has the right to hate speech in a public forum without being challenged on it. And what Abigail said isn’t hate speech, but it is speech that will harm trans people. And Abigail’s repeated misgendering of me when I am very openly nonbinary certainly paints their refusal to change their language in a much harsher light
I don’t view transphobia as discourse, it’s just hate speech and doesn’t belong being platformed anywhere. It’s fantastic that you have the will and drive to engage in political discourse and activism as much as you do, I really rather envy that, but not everyone has that energy. For me personally, I need to decouple myself from the constant flow of hate that’s so easy to end up in when you go down those paths of political discourse, because all it does for me is drain me and ruin my day.
Now that’s not me letting people run rampant with whatever hateful discourse they have, that’s me closing the door on the world for the day and engaging in some self-care. Perhaps I’m projecting, but that’s how I read Abigail as well.
I agree that we need to close the door on that torrent of hate. And when Abigail said she hated politics, she opened that door. I want it closed again. I want us to stop engaging in dangerous speech that legitimises hate.
You’re putting words in people’s mouths. They didn’t say that they hate politics, but that they want time off from it. Not all of us can put up with a constant torrent of racism, misogyny, transphobia and homophobia. It’s okay to want to have safe spaces away from that, and that in no way means you endorse the things you’re trying to avoid.
Sounds like a good time to start your own instance you can moderate and set the tone in.
When your on a mission to convert and correct the way other people think, no matter how right you are, your going to run into resistance. Especially if the conversation isn’t focused on the idea your trying to convey.
Your acting like a missionary, and complaining the heathens don’t accept the gospel.
Sounds icky doesn’t it? Win over people by slowly socializing and normalizing your viewpoint. Hearts and minds take time. Running up to anyone when they are doing something else and engaging in hostile debate is just going to put their hackles up, even if they might have agreed with you in the right context.
Think about what you want to change, and ask yourself if yout actions are getting the results you want.
I wasn’t hostile in the original thread, the patriarchy just thinks that nonbinary people having emotions and opinions is aggressive behaviour. It’s plain old sexism distorting people’s perceptions. I’m not going to be a shy, polite, demure little enby for any patriarch’s benefit, and they hate that.
Communication is not about what you intend, it’s about what is perceived. If you think your actions are getting the outcome you want. Great keep doing it.
If you don’t think you’re getting the outcomes you want, you might need to modify your actions. This post indicates that there is some room for improvement in your approach to this community.
I’m not going to modify my demeanor to match the patriarchal ideal of nonbinary submissiveness. Because what the patriarchy ultimately wants from nonbinary people is our deaths. Every breath I take is an act of feminist defiance, and I’m not interested in compromise on this issue.
If you approach every interaction as one of defiance that may make the world a very antagonistic place.
I wish you the best of luck on your journey. I’ve given you the best and heartfelt advice I have.
Yes, the world is very antagonistic. It wants me dead. It’s full of fascists who hate trans people and eat the flesh of slaves. It’s an awful place.
This world view is doing you a major disservice.
There is nothing more I can add, I simply will cite the above posts again.
