- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- news@beehaw.org
Donald Trump has said that Palestinians have “no alternative” but to leave Gaza due to the devastation left by Israel’s war on Hamas, in effect endorsing ethnic cleansing of the territory over the opposition of Palestinians and the neighbouring countries.
Speaking as he prepared to host Israel’s prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on Tuesday, Trump repeated the suggestion that Gaza’s population should be relocated to Jordan and Egypt – something both countries have firmly rejected.
Trump claimed Palestinians would “love to leave Gaza”, telling reporters: “I would think that they would be thrilled.”
“My candidate was the right choice and you’re wrong. You’re basically maga.”
You have to see how insane that is.
I’m not saying trump isn’t worse. I’m saying if you people cared about the genocide, you wouldn’t be trying to throw anti-genocide people under the bus. You just wouldn’t. You would be working with them toward a solution.
The other powerless people aren’t your enemy. The ownership class that is committing and profiting off this genocide is. But you all are taking aim at the underclass because it gives you a high horse to ride.
That is wrong. That’s my point. But you all just doubled down in the face of that sentiment.
I’m an anarchist dumbass I can just see the reality. Yous are as gone as maga. Victims of propaganda and acting against your own (and the palestines interests).
You aren’t anti-genocide. As we told you before the election, your outcome of your stance is pro genocide. And now the Palestinians have to pay the price for your stupidity.
That’s a depressingly binary outlook for an anarchist.
Are you sure you’re an anarchist? Because thinking that there was either the choice to vote for one party or “you’re brainwashed” just doesn’t exactly scream anarchist to me.
You’re overlooking my entire point to make a binary, deterministic point about only one decision being right in this scenario. You’re an anarchist telling people that f they didn’t vote for a political party complicit in a genocide, that they’re just as bad as the genocidal forces? There is legitimately no sense to be found in this.
I’m more of a Chomsky-esque anarchist myself when it comes to voting. And even I don’t see how you could make this claim. Under normal circumstances, I would be with you between trump and Kamala. But there is a fucking genocide happening, in the US’s pocket, and there were two pro genocide candidates on the ticket. Faulting the people against the genocide for the scenario being our reality, and not the people who wouldn’t break with the idea that the genocide was something to support? You’re not an anarchist, you’re a bootlicker.
You’re throwing the people who couldn’t stomach the fact that a genocide would’ve been done in their name had your candidate won under the bus? Not those who wouldn’t listen to the millions of people telling them they’re wrong and blindly kept supporting the slaughter? With historians and the world community and the activists screaming that we are witnessing a Nazi-esque ethnic cleansing, you’re not faulting the politicians who only see the opportunity for influence and government contracts?
You’re faulting…activists and peacemongers. For not voting for your candidate?
I just want to be sure I’m understanding your position here.
Don’t come at me with some binary explanation that “well the other side is worse,” I want you to do your best to shed that two party mentality to think about this in the larger picture, and then reaffirm your point for me, here.
Neo-proudhonian mutualist with a dash of agorist praxis via non-violent counter-economic ®evolution.
Changing the system by voting is not possible. The best we can do is pick the one closest aligned with our values, that will allow us to effectively organise (vs Trump turning the military on protestors/leftists), buy the Palestinians some time (vs literal cheering for ethnic clensing).
They’re statists and authoritarians—I don’t expect them to listen to reason, and I can’t change that. My criticism is directed at those who actively pushed for a worsening of the genocide by enabling that screwball to take power, rather than supporting actual anti-genocide leftists who understand that, flawed as it is, liberalism is still preferable to outright fascism. You should know better. Instead, you keep shifting between shill gambit, baseless accusations and bad-faith comparisons.
Chomsky also acknowledged pragmatic short-term engagement with existing structures (e.g., voting for the lesser evil) while aiming for long-term abolition of oppressive institutions, FYI.
In the 2016 and 2020 U.S. elections, he argued that it was morally imperative to vote for the Democratic candidate because the alternative would be worse for marginalized communities, climate policy, and global stability.
https://chomsky.info/an-eight-point-brief-for-lev-lesser-evil-voting
I’m going to throw so-called anti-genocide people under the bus because it’s very clear that most of you didn’t do dick about it and thought that being jerks to people online and not voting for certain candidates was all that was needed to be done, while I was working my ass off in emails, on the phone and in person.
And I get berated when I bring that up by so-called anti-genocide people too.
So you’re painting me with the broadest brush imaginable because you can only think in binary terms.
Because I hold the belief that not voting for Kamala Harris wasn’t the immoral choice, that must mean I’m just like everyone you’re imagining? You don’t know me, A. And B., I never said I did or didn’t vote one way or another.
I’m just so sick of this attitude I see all over lemmy. It’s the opposite of critical thought. It’s shouting “I was right” into a cave because you know you’ll hear your opinion validated and your ego stroked.
I just think if people here cared about the genocide and ending it, your position wouldn’t be so focused on you. It wouldn’t be so focused on the election that’s already over and how right you all were. When news came across your feeds about genocide and suffering, you wouldn’t frame it with your own personal choices.
Because that is essentially throwing your hands up and saying, “well, my plan didn’t work, and it didn’t work because these people.”
You all spend so much time back patting and laying blame at the feet of people who are against the genocide, that you’re driving a wedge into the anti genocide movement. Strictly for your own personal gain.
At that point, you’re not anti-genocide, you’re anti-doing a goddamn thing about it.
That is and has been my only point since I made a comment in this thread. I knew I was going to face a bunch of these types of comments, but I thought I’d be able to get my point across. And my point is that you need to take your heads out of the election and work with, not against, the working class. Because your allegiance to an ownership class representative proving you were right in your support doesn’t mean a goddamn thing when we’re talking about a fucking genocide.
That’s what I’m trying to get you all to see. Because this echo chamber here where the prevailing thought is “undecideds are the enemy!” is so incredibly self-defeating and self-serving. Self-defeating if the end to the genocide is really what you want, and self-serving because it puts you on a high horse while shedding any and all responsibility.
Changing that outlook is my entire point in this viper pit.
I didn’t visit any politician’s offices in the last two weeks since I’m new in the country we just fled to, but I still made sure to dedicate three hours last week to both emails and phone calls to various politicians. So I guess you’re right. I am anti-doing a goddamn thing about it.
What would you suggest I do?
Well, since this discussion is about solidarity in the anti-genocide movement, as I’ve said many times, I would suggest everyone (and, excuse me if I mislabeled you as being against my initial point, but I’m having a discussion with a bunch of people) that you all stop trying to scapegoat other people who don’t want to see a genocide happen. Do all you want personally, that’s all great. But my entire point was that you all say, “I’m the real anti-genocider! And all these people are wrong!” No matter that they want what you supposedly want.
Stop driving a wedge in the movement by high roading people who want the same thing you do. There’s a huge rash of this behavior, and that’s what I’m trying to call out. You can do all the good you want, but if you then go into the community to salt the earth behind you for all those who want what you do, you’re negating any good you’ve done.
I said no such thing, nor did I even imply such a thing.
If you want to tell people to stop things, tell yourself stop including me in the things you’re saying about other people.
I do a shitload to try to stop this genocide with what is in my extremely limited power and I have never even implied either of the things you have put in quotes.
Whatever you have to tell yourself I guess, right?