I cannot fucking fathom the concept of going into a bathroom to look at people when Iām desperate to get in and out as fast as humanly (or even badger-ly considering how much I waddle) possible.
I cannot fucking fathom the concept of going into a bathroom to look at people when Iām desperate to get in and out as fast as humanly (or even badger-ly considering how much I waddle) possible.
āCompletely plausibleā you say, about an event thatās astronomically unlikely.
The percentage of people being physically assaulted in bathrooms for being mistakenly identified as trans, while certainly a thing that heppens, isnāt exactly common. Certainly occurring less than once a day. There are millions of restrooms available to the public in some capacity in the US.
(In case you want to dispute the āonce a dayā thing, there are about 3000 violent crimes total per day in the US. If you think that non trans people being assaulted for being presumed trans while in a bathroom is one of those 3000 every single day, Iāve got a bridge to sell you.)
The odds that two people who are both the kind of person to physically assault a presumed trans person in a bathroom both going to the same bathroom, and both mistaking the other as a trans person is comically unlikely.
Combine that with the fact that itās the kind of comical situation that appeals to the particular brand of schadenfreude that works so well in online spaces like this, and it doesnāt even begin to tickle your, āhey this might be satireā sensors? I think that says more about your critical thinking skills than it does about the state of the nation.
There is also that the vast majority of gender critical feminists are women, and the majority of assaults are committed by men.
I donāt worry about terfs assaulting me directly, while I suppose itās possible, I worry they will weaponize law enforcement or some transphobic white knight against me.
Exactly.
You do realize toilets, bigotry and violence exist outside the US, too?
Yeah, but there are a lot fewer people I would describe as āgender critical feminists.ā But sure, happy to extend my numbers to cover Europe too if you want. They hold up there too. Unless you think brawls in womenās bathrooms are way more common in France than the good old USofA?
Terf island has quite a few. I donāt know how likely they are to attack people in bathrooms, but I wouldnāt put it past them.
All three?!?!?!?
It gets even better, some toilets even have bidets! /s & /absurd
This is all assuming that cisgender women being mistaken for transgender women and harassed / assaulted in the bathroom results in a report or a news story each time.
There are 8 billion people alive. At least a billion live in places where trans rights are under an active coordinated attack by fascists. Once a day is sure to be a dramatic underestimation.
Its also quite plausible that 2 fascist women would accuse each other of being trans. There is a paradoxically high proportion of gender non-conforming women in fascist communities in some places. All it really takes to be accused of being trans is being gender non-conforming. Therefore, absolutely a common event, and it is plausible that fascist women could be accused by other fascist women. Theyāre not the most mature people, having observed their attitudes and behaviors, simply being accused of being trans is probably enough for them to accuse their accuser of being trans. Theyāre generally very petulant and aggressive.
Of those 8 billion, how many would self describe as āgender critical feministsā? Iām betting that there arenāt a lot in, say, Saudi Arabia. Itās a pretty Anglocentric term.
And I again refer back to the 3000 total violent crimes a day in the US. We can probably safely assume that the per-capita number is lower on most other countries with āgender critical feministsā as a prominent social group.
So, if we say there are 3000 violent crimes per 350million people a day, how many of those do you think are a cis woman getting physically beaten up for being mistaken as a trans person?
Yeah, Iām saying that the 3000 number is not a reasonable assumption for the actual number of instances of harassment / assault per day in the US. The majority of instances of go unreported. Especially when it involves someone accusing a woman of being trans, unless its an outright police get involved situation its probably not going to be reported.
It wasnāt how common it is, itās how plausible it is. And yes I believe it is plausible.
The most liberal estimate that I could find on how often violent crimes go unreported is 60%. So, to be extra generous letās say there are 10,000 violent crimes per day. Thereās still millions of bathrooms and hundreds of millions of people.
And, while weāre making a point of it. 80% of violent crimes are committed by men. So bring that 10k back down to 2k for the actual potential sample here.
You think one out of every 2000 violent crimes committed by women are violent TERFs beating up non-trans people that they thought were trans in public bathrooms? Because thatās what it would have to be to be once a day on average.
Or, maybe you think my liberal overestimate of unreported violent crime is wrong? What percent do you think goes unreported?
The odds of this are on par with a set of identical twins being struck by lighting at the same time while on different continents. Impossible? No. Implausible? Very much yes.
It depends on what they define violent crimes as. I am genuinely 100% certain that on a daily basis yes there are cases of women being accused of being trans. Look at the news recently, the incidence rate of this happening is rising.
And yes some of those instances would escalate to harassment / assault. I couldnāt give you hard statistics as its very specific and there is a lack of data on it. Its biased by the fact that some women who are accused may not be willing to admit that.
Regardless, yes I definitely believe it is plausible and I also believe that the statistics youre citing almost certainly do not account for these specific circumstances. Like i do not believe that information is of use to this discussion as harassment is rarely reported and assault isnāt always reported either. I donāt have hard numbers on that.
I donāt necessarily dispute that it would be a pretty rare or incredible occurrence, but in terms of plausability, TERFs are highly likely to accuse someone of being trans (much more likely than the average person), and the inevitability that one would accuse another one of being trans seems well within the realm of possibility to me.
You keep talking about harassment, but thatās irrelevant to the point Iām making. All my statistics were about assault. And you avoided stating a number of assaults you think go unreported. Pick a number? Is it 90% of assaults go unreported? 99%? Because even at those numbers, the odds are still shockingly low that this could happen.
And weāre talking about an altercation where two women beat each other to the point that both are hospitalized. This would be newsworthy on its own, and is certainly not a daily occurrence. To add to that that the motive was āboth thought the other was trans,ā and that doesnāt set off your āprobably ragebaitā buzzer? And weāre not talking about a hypothetical here. It was ragebait.
And letās be doubly clear, this has never happened in real life. And Iād bet you any sum of money that it wonāt in the next 100yrs. Plausible doesnāt just mean that you can imagine it happening. I can imagine a world where Iām piloting a mechsuit to work every day in the next decade. Just cause I can imagine it doesnāt make it plausible.
As I stated before, the amount of unreported crime is not relevant to the question of āis this situation plausibleā. I mentioned it in the beginning because the statistic you provided is essentially irrelevant to the topic and inaccurate anyway. I provided my justification for this in my previous comment.
TERFs are more likely to accuse someone of being trans than any other population of people. Let me clarify that in specific words. It is orders of magnitude more likely a TERF would accuse someone of being trans than any other demographic of person.
Women have been harassed and assaulted because they were believed to be trans in just the past couple months. Hereās two examples for you. You might want to like actually have a clue what youre talking about before you start spouting off whatever. .
The question of harassment is pertinent because nearly every kind of homophobic or transphobic assault is precipitated by harassment. Women have been assaulted over these accusations. It is not out of the realm of plausability that a woman would be assaulted on account of being accused of being transgender.
Your comparison about a mech suit is wild. You do not possess the technology to have such a thing. TERFs exist and accuse people of being trans every single day. TERFs are extremists and have violent views towards trans people. The people they generally accuse of being trans are women. There are gender non-conforming TERFs.
It is not unthinkable that a TERF could accuse another TERF of being trans, that much has absolutely happened before. It is also not unthinkable that a TERF would assault someone they thought was trans who was using the womenās bathroom.
Ergo, not at all implausible. Again, rare, yes. Implausible, no.
I think at the end of the day what we are disagreeing over is the word plausible.
If we both picked a random address somewhere in North America, is it plausible that we would happen to pick the same one? Itās possible, certainly, but vanishingly unlikely. Unlikely to the point that, if we did, I would presume something other than random chance was to blame. That is what Iām contesting here.
I agree that TERFs are orders of magnitude more likely to assault someone than the average person. I agree that assault is proceeded by harassment. I agree that women have been assaulted in recent memory over this very issue.
I agree with everything youāve said. But none of that makes it āplausibleā in the sense that it happening is something I would reasonably expect to happen. The statistical odds of it happening are relevant, in that they are so remote as to make the alternative explanation that itās satire a vastly more plausible explanation. So much so that, when I read the headline, I immediately knew it was satire, and find it concerning that people didnāt.
Sure, if I orchestrated two TERFs who might be mistaken as trans to go into the same bathroom at the same time, this might be a plausible outcome. But that orchestration is the required step. The scenario where they do go into the bathroom at the same time is the absurd part, and what makes this clearly satire.
And, as an aside, I disagree with you about the mech suits. We do have mechanical exoskeleton prototypes. Theyāre not very practical for 99% of use cases, so they arenāt really used. But itās not unfathomable that I could get one and ride it to work sometime in the next decade. Itās certainly not plausible, but itās something I could make happen if I tried really hard to force it probably. Much like the thing weāre talking about.