A second Trump term is everything you hate about Biden plus more shit. Biden still the lesser of two evils, you should vote for him.
But I will say Biden is a fucking moron for doing so many unpopular things late in his term. I guess some of these geriatric Dems would rather punch down on the left than secure democracy against it’s biggest threat in decades. I get the frustration.
That’s not how American voting works, if everyone voted for who they think is absolute best, the group with the most unity wins, which is exactly why political parties exist.
Yes, Unity. That is what I’m referring to. It just seems voters are only worried about being on the “winning” side and that is their Unity - winning and not what is best for them.
Sorry, I’m just saying that if people all voted for a 3rd party candidate that wanted govt out of their pockets and personal life things would be so much better than just voting to win or voting for the lesser of two evils.
Does that make sense? Not sure if I’m articulating my thought well enough.
I just think that most people would like to have Government out of their wallet and personal lives. If those people all voted for a candidate who wanted the same, then change could happen.
And there’s little to no historical precedent for people spontaneously uniting around a third party candidate. There is, OTOH, precedent for the spoiler effect causing an unpopular candidate to win.
Exactly; you don’t understand basic game theory. The options you lay out are not in fact part of the equation. If we’re playing a game in which you have only two choices, opting for a third make-believe alternative is going to result in a losing outcome every time.
Voting to express yourself is pure vanity. Vote in a way that will actually influence the outcome in a positive way. If, that is, you want to do something other than feel good about how morally superior you are.
Who is running third party for folks to rally behind? Moreover, who is running that would somehow overcome both major parties’ candidates by drawing enough away from them to win or in some way effect a change in process?
The thing is most people are Third party without knowing it. They’ve just been brainwashed into thinking there are only two options and are solely focused on being on the “winning” side, heavily persuaded into “fear” voting.
I would agree with you if we didn’t have a two party majority and FPtT voting. You would also have to have a strong third party candidate that most people are excited about and is not trying to be a spoiler. You also will need to start persuading those you have mentioned who “are third party without knowing it” way before the election. Also getting a majority for a third party in the electoral college.
I want to be wrong and am willing to be convinced. I am curious how you see third party as an option with or without voting reform and how to persuade people to consider it.
I think if you just introduce the Libertarian’s website to people and explain how they want to reduce the size and taxation of the Govt with simple rules, I believe people would come around.
Also, point out how New Hampshire is mainly Libertarian now because of the Free State Project and look at the things they’ve done there.
I would like to say I’ll take a look, but i won’t. I don’t have the time right now. I did search it and it seems like it has to do with voting in a communist country?
He studied Lenin’s notes about voting in Russia before the revolution and compares it to today. I get it. I never get to read half the stuff I’d like to. He also spoke on the Upstream podcast if you have time.
Let me know when there’s a third party candidate worth my time. Jill Stein has done nothing to earn my vote, and unless she addresses her anti science remarks, she’ll never get it.
Everybody needs to vote for who they honestly think the best candidate is. If that’s Biden, vote Biden. If that’s Jill Stein or Cornel West or whoever the Libertarians are running, then vote for them.
Vote your hopes, not your fears. Or, as Jill Stein said, “Don’t vote for the lesser evil. Vote for the greater good.”
That’s some “When they go low, we go high” bullshit.
Politics isn’t about falling in love with the perfect candidate. That’s never going to happen – and if it seems like someone is that perfect candidate, it’s a giant red flag.
Vote for what’s realistic. Vote like an adult. Vote with your head, not your heart.
Ah, that would be the Jill Stein who has never tried to run for mayor or congress or governor, the Jill Stein who thinks it’s the presidency or nothing. She has no interest in changing anything. There is no reason to listen to her.
Everyone just needs to do the right thing and vote 3rd Party.
My brother in Christ, that is not the right thing.
Which candidate should we vote for that will guarantee there will not be another 30 years of 2-party rule and how are they polling right now?
I disagree, to each their own.
A second Trump term is everything you hate about Biden plus more shit. Biden still the lesser of two evils, you should vote for him.
But I will say Biden is a fucking moron for doing so many unpopular things late in his term. I guess some of these geriatric Dems would rather punch down on the left than secure democracy against it’s biggest threat in decades. I get the frustration.
Voting for the lesser of two evils, is still voting for evil.
It’s voting for less evil. And staying home is an extra vote for more evil.
But I promise, get the frustration. We live in a fucked up system that filters out good candidates.
Nope, vote based on your values. If everyone did that, you wouldn’t have to settle for evil.
That’s not how American voting works, if everyone voted for who they think is absolute best, the group with the most unity wins, which is exactly why political parties exist.
Yes, Unity. That is what I’m referring to. It just seems voters are only worried about being on the “winning” side and that is their Unity - winning and not what is best for them.
If you could rephrase this that would be great
Sorry, I’m just saying that if people all voted for a 3rd party candidate that wanted govt out of their pockets and personal life things would be so much better than just voting to win or voting for the lesser of two evils. Does that make sense? Not sure if I’m articulating my thought well enough.
A plan that depends on everyone spontaneously deciding to do what you think is best is no plan at all.
I just think that most people would like to have Government out of their wallet and personal lives. If those people all voted for a candidate who wanted the same, then change could happen.
Most people aren’t libertarians.
And there’s little to no historical precedent for people spontaneously uniting around a third party candidate. There is, OTOH, precedent for the spoiler effect causing an unpopular candidate to win.
Most people do not realize they are Libertarian.
You obviously don’t understand basic game theory.
I just think if people would look at what they value, find a matching candidate, vote for said candidate; things would be less of a shits show.
Exactly; you don’t understand basic game theory. The options you lay out are not in fact part of the equation. If we’re playing a game in which you have only two choices, opting for a third make-believe alternative is going to result in a losing outcome every time.
Bold of you to assume everyone shares your values.
Oh no, not MY values. Their OWN values.
Then it seems to me that if their own values are fascistic, you do have to worry about evil.
I think that the majority of people have a fair moral compass or at least feel that they want less Government meddling in their life?
Are your values based around helping the worst of two evils get in power? Because it sure sounds like it.
There it is. Fear Voting.
Voting to express yourself is pure vanity. Vote in a way that will actually influence the outcome in a positive way. If, that is, you want to do something other than feel good about how morally superior you are.
It’s not about being morally superior, its about doing the right thing for all of us and to stop being forced into the Lesser of Two Evils.
When has your plan ever worked? It’s just the laziest thing you can do and still tell yourself you’re trying to help.
Removed by mod
I don’t know if it’s MY plan. Secondly, how would we know, it’s never been tried (as far as I know). Thirdly, not sure how it’s lazy?
It’s been tried in every presidential election in my lifetime.
Oh, you mean running a 3rd party candidate, not people actually not voting for the lesser of two evils.
Who is running third party for folks to rally behind? Moreover, who is running that would somehow overcome both major parties’ candidates by drawing enough away from them to win or in some way effect a change in process?
The thing is most people are Third party without knowing it. They’ve just been brainwashed into thinking there are only two options and are solely focused on being on the “winning” side, heavily persuaded into “fear” voting.
I would agree with you if we didn’t have a two party majority and FPtT voting. You would also have to have a strong third party candidate that most people are excited about and is not trying to be a spoiler. You also will need to start persuading those you have mentioned who “are third party without knowing it” way before the election. Also getting a majority for a third party in the electoral college.
I want to be wrong and am willing to be convinced. I am curious how you see third party as an option with or without voting reform and how to persuade people to consider it.
I think if you just introduce the Libertarian’s website to people and explain how they want to reduce the size and taxation of the Govt with simple rules, I believe people would come around. Also, point out how New Hampshire is mainly Libertarian now because of the Free State Project and look at the things they’ve done there.
https://fee.org/articles/new-hampshire-is-the-freest-state-in-america-heres-why/
August Nimtz wrote a book about this, it’s called “voting fetishism.”
I would like to say I’ll take a look, but i won’t. I don’t have the time right now. I did search it and it seems like it has to do with voting in a communist country?
He studied Lenin’s notes about voting in Russia before the revolution and compares it to today. I get it. I never get to read half the stuff I’d like to. He also spoke on the Upstream podcast if you have time.
The Podcast I can get behind. I’ll give that a shot.
Upstream deserves praise. It has some intelligent conversations, not just dictations.
*Currently 32 mins into the 55min episode and liking the format so far.
Let me know when there’s a third party candidate worth my time. Jill Stein has done nothing to earn my vote, and unless she addresses her anti science remarks, she’ll never get it.
Understood, because the Red or Blue candidate are worth it.
Because you don’t understand how the American electoral system presently works.
So, yes, they are. Fuck you people are stupid and ignorant in one.
Wow, ok. Looks like your username name adds up to your comment.
😂 yes, interacting with fuckknuckles like you was a poor choice. well spotted. doesn’t change anything though.
Great plan. Everyone just needs to listen to you, and all our problems will go away!
Everybody needs to vote for who they honestly think the best candidate is. If that’s Biden, vote Biden. If that’s Jill Stein or Cornel West or whoever the Libertarians are running, then vote for them.
Vote your hopes, not your fears. Or, as Jill Stein said, “Don’t vote for the lesser evil. Vote for the greater good.”
That’s some “When they go low, we go high” bullshit.
Politics isn’t about falling in love with the perfect candidate. That’s never going to happen – and if it seems like someone is that perfect candidate, it’s a giant red flag.
Vote for what’s realistic. Vote like an adult. Vote with your head, not your heart.
Ah, that would be the Jill Stein who has never tried to run for mayor or congress or governor, the Jill Stein who thinks it’s the presidency or nothing. She has no interest in changing anything. There is no reason to listen to her.
jill stein has won office. you don’t have your facts straight.