If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
I felt this way a few years ago when we had the idiot convoy ride across Canada. The flag became a symbol for racist, anti-vax, just general assholes.
I never was a huge fan of flying the flag anyway, because to me it represents colonialism, but I never used to mind it as much. Now when I see it out of place, I just assume bad, unless it’s one of our more cheerful variations like the indigenous design or the heart one that was used to show support for medical workers.
I see other people getting down voted for similar sentiments, but visiting the US always made me feel uncomfortable to see ALL the flags. I honestly haven’t been to another country that takes that much pride in their flag. Until the convoy, I don’t think I even ever saw anyone flying Canadian flag in their yard except maybe for Canada Day.
Idk, what I’m saying is, I feel for you, I understand it’s a symbol of your national identity, but also, maybe take more pride in what actual good Americans do rather than in just some made up symbolism of what they should be.
I know exactly what you’re talking about. I’m from Russia.
Aw, you’re turning English.
The St George Cross flag basically gets trotted out for football and racism. That’s it.
If I see one on somebody’s house and it’s not Euros or World Cup season, then I automatically assume they’re seething because they heard somebody have a phone conversation in a foreign language on the bus three weeks ago and that they should bring back smoking in pubs.
Not from the US but when I see my country’s flag I don’t really feel anything. In theory I’ve got two flags, both the Scottish one and the Union Jack but they both elicit the same lack of reaction. Countries are just social and geographical facts. Getting angry or elated at the sight of a flag is a bit like having an emotional reaction to the moon; I suppose it’s possible in some circumstances but most of the time it’s just there and you shrug.
Ok but the cool thing about the white saltire on blue background is you get your flag in the sky whenever two planes leave a trail at the right angle.
I have always had that feeling living in a fascist third world country (Turkey) welcome to the club
No. I saw a lady driving with two USA flags on the sides of her car yesterday. I assume this is her alternative to having a Trump sticker, since that shit would likely engender a negative response in the Bay Area (specifically Oakland / Berkeley). She just looked dumb as fuck. I was embarrassed for her.
Don’t be ashamed to be ashamed of your country. If you’re also a USA citizen, we have a lot to be ashamed about. But also don’t give up. Fight back. Don’t let them slow-roll to victory by causing us to go numb.
“Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” - I think Samuel Johnson’s original meaning, of complaining about “false” patriots, strongly applies to your distaste for the flag. The idiots we see proudly waving their country flags (in Brazil, that’d be the bozonaristas) are using them as a cover for their prejudices and stupidity. They wouldn’t be able to name a single thing they like about the country they love.
I don’t think you’re wrong at all.
Personally, I don’t hate the flag because for me it represents ideals that should be for everyone and that I should be fighting oppression of those against the dream. I have a very Captain America-esque view.
What I cringe and have disgust with are the citizens that want to tear down these just ideals or misrepresent and distort what we should be.
Do USian school children still talk to that bit of fabric every morning - or is that a myth? From an outsider’s perspective I always put the US just below, uh, post-Weimar republic Germany in the excessive flag club chart placings. Always seemed excessively jingoistic.
Best of luck with your country…
I’ll tell this story as often as it’s relevant - I was made to recite the pledge of alliegance in school at 5 years old. I wasn’t a citizen, I should have had no reason to swear fealty, and our family was denied green cards, so the allegiance was not reciprocated.
Kind of dodged a bullet if I’m honest, but still, I remember it verbatim to this day, because I was indoctrinated when I was too small and naive to know any better. Not reciting it was not an option I was presented with. I don’t think anybody in charge would’ve thought twice about it either.
Damn, that’s a rough and crazy story but, like you say, looking at it now I agree you probably did dodge a bullet. At least you get to see the empire fall from the outside.
Yes it still goes on. I live in a very liberal city with a ton of diversity bordering Chicago and our schools still do it here. However, they don’t care if you participate or not - that is your personal choice.
I have been substitute teaching and I’ve noticed that not many kids recite it. They just listen to it being recited over the morning announcements.
I like the way your school works where you can chant along if you want - I remember having to lip-sync the “Lord’s prayer” (daily bread speech) as a kid so as not to get a whooping from a zealot in the staff room. Crazy times.
Best of luck to you, your kids and your city - you’re literally educating the generation that might have to dig your whole country out from the nightmare it appears to be building. Look after yourselves…
Thank you! I think it’s a nice compromise. Those that want to say it can and others can feel and be who they want. I grew up saying it, but these days I do think it’s weird to pledge allegiance to a flag or that we have to constantly tout how we’re the best country (we’re not). With age comes wisdom and experience.
You’re in good company. Germans have a similar relationship with their flag.
I may have a chance to travel to Europe for the first time in my life, and I’m worried that the Ugly American stereotype will be factored in to my reception. Probably won’t go until things calm down here/the nukes fly.
We (or at least loads of us) understand that while your government is deplorable, a lot of ordinary Americans are not. I guess it would also depend on where you go and how. If you’re decked out in TRUMP/MAGA-clothes, then I suppose you might meet quite a few people who will instantly want nothing to do with you. But if you’re a normal person, you most likely won’t have any issues, aside from questions about U.S. issues.
Just come over. We won’t bite. Don’t put off your plans because of this. Enjoy yourself and walk around in a sane country for a while. ;)
We traveled to Spain while wearing a Fuck Trump button in 2018 (Yes cringe i know) . You wouldn’t believe the amount of love and laughs we got. Very nice place btw.
Definitely go if you can. I’ve never experienced any sort of discrimination based on my American nationality in Europe. In general, I think it’s assumed that if you’re willing to travel and are respectful of the local culture you aren’t one of the bad ones. You might get a few questions about your experiences or feelings about the current situation, but that’s the most I’ve seen.
That said, some cities have recently become pretty anti-tourism in general, especially in Spain and Italy from what I’ve heard. But this isn’t against Americans, it’s against all tourists driving up housing prices.
Thanks! That is good to know.
Nope, same thing happened to me in Canada after the clown convoy. Canada Day was never the same nor celebrated since
The greatest lie the Right ever told that the Left bought hook line and sinker was that they were the ones who represented America.
The thing is, while the US has it’s horrible history and present, the people who fought for the ideals we’re supposed to have are also just as much American as any conservative asshole. MLK Jr was American. Frederick Douglass was American. John Brown was American. Mister Rogers was American. Abolitionists. Suffragists. Union fighters. People fighting for fixing the problems, righting the wrongs, holding our country accountable for it’s own ideals, are just as much a part of that flag.
The assholes laid claim to that flag and the people who are aware of the problems, who have legitimate concerns with the bullshit this country has done and continues to do, accidentally let them.
Being an American is supposed to be about learning to be better and doing the next right thing.
This requires introspection and critically assessing our system to ascertain whether or not it’s lifting us - and the world - up. This noble, inclusive, empathetic approach (which we fail at all the time but we often try) is literally impossible for conservatives.
Yes I am speaking in grand language. Yes it’s even egotistical. But I grew up believing that the US was supposed to try and be an example what it means to do the right thing. We have lost our way and shown ourselves to be a selfish, hateful people.
Maybe we were always that, but I always hoped we could be more.
So then the question is, what should the flag represent, the people or the ideals? If it’s the ideals, then some real shitheads are trying to steal your flag.
The flag represents whatever we are, and right now we suck.
I agree with this with every piece of my heart. I’d like more than anything for American non-maga’s to take back the American flag (and the gadsden for that matter). Let them have their maga and thin blue line, but ceding the American flag to them is essentially admitting that you don’t want to be a part of this country, which only makes maga’s feel more comfortable about labeling you as an “other”. I know, I grew up in a conservative family, and still live in a conservative state. It’s a self-exacerbating problem.
I can sympathize with those that really are done with the country, but I’m not ready to give up yet. We can flip the script. Pride marches should be flooded with American flags. Civil rights too. Force conservatives to come to terms with the fact that they’re no more American than the trans-commie over there waving the big-ass American flag. If we’re so lucky to make it through this and come out the other side a better country, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to changing the flag. But right now I believe it makes strategic sense to claim the 50-stars. Fly your other flags with it if you don’t want to be confused for a conservative, then you’re essentially projecting “hey, I’m American too, dumbass!”.
TL;DR: the American left needs stop being so self-concious about what waving an American flag says about them and realize that a.) non-maga’s waving the American flag can be a powerful propaganda tool, and b.) they can take it back.
🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 NAZI AMERICANS FUCK OFF 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 SHOOT ALL NAZIS ON SIGHT! USA! USA! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
No, you’re right to feel that way. While most Americans aren’t terrible people, enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
No, you’re right to feel that way.
Agree.
While most Americans aren’t terrible people,
Hard disagree.
enough of us are that we allowed fascism to take over and we will have to carry that shame with us for the rest of our lives. It Happened Here.
Well…yeah. That’s a symptom of the problem which is why I had to hard disagree with you.
