No evidence that UFOs are aliens — NASA attempts to make conversations about aerial phenomena more scientific::NASA attempts to make conversations about aerial phenomena more scientific.
Science… making everything boring like usual. Bring back the good ol’ inquisition and the crusades. Let’s spice this shit back up!
I, for one welcome our Scientific overlords to our BoringEutopia
If you think scientific minds would be Eutopian overlords, you’ve never worked in academia.
As a child of an academic (although in the humanities), I would never have wanted my father or his colleagues to have been in charge of anything. Half of them were nuts anyway.
No one should underestimate humanity’s ability to ruin everything.
I don’t think science is boring at all. I eat up every new thing the Webb Telescope shows us.
I find it wild that people find explanation uninteresting and boring… Like, I get that it’s exciting to wonder and speculate about things, but I find getting real answers to be the most exciting. Expanding human knowledge is exciting, not boring.
Exactly! I don’t get it. Why don’t you want to learn new things? It’s like they feel that thinking is hard. Maybe that’s it?
Adjust the lens on the Webb to defect sarcasm, buddy.
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Basically, if you see some shit you need to mention it, because it probably isn’t an alien but there are many other important things that it could be. They don’t want you or airforce pilots sitting on suspicious sightings because you feel awkward/conspiratorial.
…also it’s probably aliens
Everyone wants X Files but it’s just countries spying on each other and military experiments. Anything fantastical like the mummies are news spectacles meant to drum up publicity. There’s no reason why aliens would match cartoony depictions made up in science fiction. If actual aliens are here it basically means travelling faster than light is possible.
It’s likely even more boring than that. These grainy, blurry, IR images are artifacts, birds, balloons, the Moon, commercial aircraft, stars, satellites, and other common things that can look weird from certain angles/perspectives/lenses/sensors.
I’d be super happy to be proven wrong but people really want to believe there’s more out there and it’s visiting us but I’m going to need more solid proof than some noisy and blurry images and some silly-looking chimera mummies in a box.
Yeah the vast majority are just artifacts or weather phenomena, and the only material evidence is clearly man made tech. Also when people describe aliens they, big surprise, match depictions in science fiction.
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Tic tac was recorded on video by the navy accelerating at ~200G. It was also witnessed by 8 highly trained aircrew, including top gun graduates.
Mhmm Sure thing
Flir.mp4 at the bottom. NASA analyzed gofast which is the least interesting of the 3.
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Idk why these people are all denying these uaps when the government has literally come out and confirmed they are their videos and confirmed they they do not know what they are.
They’re probably just trolling to anger others. Or truly ignorant of the confirmations.
I think a lot of the people that completely write the UAPs off as a hoax, or dismiss them as a mistake, are at least slightly scared by the implications of what these observations could mean.
The UAPs seem to break our understanding of the laws of physics, and our military and intelligence communities seem to be genuinely stumped by them. Even if these craft are being controlled by an unknown government or group of humans, it is still terrifying that they managed to make such advancements while hiding them from the rest of the world.
I have always been pretty skeptical. I won’t even try to begin to claim I know what these things are, or where they come from. Despite that, the evidence that they exist is getting pretty hard to deny.
I just can’t think of another reason why so many people want to mock and avoid the topic, besides fear and angst. This could be one of the biggest discoveries or paradigm shifts of our entire history as a species, with or without aliens being involved.
For the person who downvoted, what’s your reason why? I’m honestly curious.
200g *if * they are interpreting what they see correctly. A sensor artifact doesn’t need to respect any flight characteristics.
Being experts in one field doesn’t make them experts in whatever may be causing the tic tac.
If actual aliens are here it basically means travelling faster than light is possible.
Not just possible, but dirt cheap, otherwise why would they be constantly dropping down into Earth to see what we’re up to.
Really, the whole notion is a bit silly when you think about it rationally. If a society was advanced to the point of cheap FTL (which, I feel the need to point out, isn’t just “advanced technology” but “technology that operates in complete defiance to our most fundamental understandings of physics”), why on earth would they be dipping into the actual atmosphere, doing landings, or flying by private aircraft? Surely a society with such breathtaking technology could drop a single spy satellite into orbit and get every piece of info they could possibly want about us, especially now that we’re in the digital age.
I have no doubt that alien life of some sort is out there, very possibly it’s even prolific (though that doesn’t seem to be the case based on our admittedly limited observations of exoplanets), but there’s no rational basis for thinking that an advanced alien society would have either the means, nor the motivation, to constantly pop down to earth to screw with pilots, farmers, etc.
I like to make up weird theories in my head about it not being aliens but alternate earth people. What if every time it is actually a first-time visitor not knowing what it’s like here. They don’t expect us to have anything capable of bringing their experimental craft down and we do, to their surprise. Hence they always have different looking craft, different looking bodies, etc.
otherwise why would they be constantly dropping down into Earth to see what we’re up to.
Not because of the species, but because of the rare and unique planet?
There’s no reason why aliens would match cartoony depictions made up in science fiction.
What, only homosapiens can troll others?
“We don’t know what it is there for aliens” makes as much sense as “We don’t know where it all comes from therefore God”
There was a period of a few months around the 60 minutes interview with the pilots where I was pretty sad and bored, and it hit just the right spot for me to feel some hope that the world is interesting.
Which is also how a lot of people “find religion” fwiw
The thing we aren’t exploring or talking about in mainstream discourse is that UAPs might be terrestrial and non-human.
No, I’m pretty sure that is both being explored and talked about. People try to find natural explanations for these phenomena. Do you have a specific idea that should be talked about?
I had a hard time in another thread just convincing people that the subject of UAPs is worth any inquiry at all.
I am just chiming in because I feel that people who dismiss the topic in general will see this headline and say see nothing to see here case closed people who investigate this are crazy.
Whereas the phenomena is still very much present and should be investigated - for national security and aviation safety reasons at the very least.
I don’t think most people would say that UAPs shouldn’t be investigated. Look how much people freaked out over the Chinese spy balloon incident. The dismissal comes when people start to make baseless insinuations about extra terrestrial origin.
And FWIW, we absolutely do investigate UAPs (and by “we” I mean the government), again, it’s just in the context of “is this a foreign spy platform” not “is this a flying saucer”.
Yes but you have to consider how long the government has made a mockery of the topic. Public opinion is still struggling with accepting that the ufos/uaps are actually real. Once they accept that they might start thinking about what it might be.
If anyone is interested, I have posted a very detailed account of evidence supporting the existence of UAP (not aliens).
It contains admissions of their existence by the US government on multiple occasions and throughout multiple decades. I have included footage of UAP confirmed to be valid by our government, and a bunch of declassified government documents on the subject.
I don’t rule out the possibility of alien existence in the universe, and I don’t rule out that such entities could be responsible for the disruptive/breakthrough technology represented in UAP, but aliens and even the origin of UAP are irrelevant to whether or not the UAP themselves exist.
They do, and I have provided a tremendous amount of evidence supporting this from a rational and skeptical perspective.
And since the topic is being mislabeled as crazy Republicans, I’d like to point out I’m left-leaning and I’ve also included quotes and documentation of Democrats’ support of the topic, including Chuck Schumer and AOC. The truth is there is essentially unanimous support from the right and left in drafting UAP-related legislation. This is not a crazy conspiracy theory. It’s not like the anti-vaxxer lunacy. It is reality.
UAPs exist obviously. Anything in the air that isn’t identified, be it a cloud, a trash bag, a balloon, an enemy aircraft, or aliens. Implying the existence of UAP means anything special though is where things get stupid. We need to get better protocols for calling out there’s something unknown just for the safety of pilots, but it doesn’t mean anything else.
What we are referring to isn’t just any unidentified phenomenon, but rather the percentile that is not explainable and represent physical crafts that are recorded on military equipment, radar readings (military, air traffic control, and weather radar), and temperature readings that put these objects well below zero.
What most people are referring to when discussing UAP are that small percentile that are truly anomalous, categorized as Category D UAP by France.
7.5.3 “Radar/Visual” Cases Worldwide “Radar/visual” cases are those in which a visual sighting is associated with an onboard radar and/or ground radar detection.
It is noted that: the first sightings in Japan and the USSR date back to 1948, 30 of the 68 countries cited in the list reported “radar/visual” cases, of the 489 cases in the report, 101 were “radar/visual” cases (21%), of the 363 cases in the Blue Book report, 76 were “radar/visual” cases (21%). in 1952, 16 out of 68 cases were “radar/visual” cases (23.52%).
In conclusion, we can clearly establish that from 1942 to 1995, at least 500 well-documented and recognized aeronautical UAP D sightings were identified throughout the world, nearly 20% of which were “radar/visual” cases.
They furnish proof of a physical reality of phenomena that exhibited paradoxical maneuvers. [39]
This was from a report published in the 90s by France’s government body that has been studying UAP for decades. There’s a great detailed account of the Nimitz Event in my post, where I have included direct quotes of 2 top gun pilots, a weapons system specialist, and the radar operator. It is a highly witnessed account with radar data that confirmed the physical object’s existence, it’s recorded on the weapons systems, and there were multiple expert eyewitnesses whose visual accounts were corroborated by recordings and radar data.
Read the Nimitz section from my post. If you can read that and simply dismiss it as not being strong evidence supporting the existence of anomalous crafts with breakthrough/disruptive technology, then I don’t think you understand what the word evidence means. We’re not talking about “proof.” We don’t have “proof” of gravity; we have evidence which supports the theory.
There is valid and compelling evidence supporting the existence of UAP D. The general public hasn’t given the subject fair consideration because of the stigma attached, and the deeply internalized beliefs they don’t want to challenge.
No, we’re talking about unidentified thing. Some of which have accounts that seem extraordinary, but may not be. I don’t know about the French one, but the Nimitz one the accounts don’t really make sense. Also, the radar detected something but it doesn’t provide any evidence for something extraordinary. The video does not. It shows something explainable by mundane possibilities. The only thing that does really is the first hand account.
Now, you may say Fravor is an expert so he can’t be mistaken. I’ll agree he’s an expert, but so are doctors. Have you ever heard of a doctor misidentifying a desease or anything? They’re just dealing with mostly static things in the decently well understood and observed human body. They aren’t flying at high speed circling around an object while descending towards it while keeping track of everything else around and also dealing with everything in the environment with basically no depth perception because it’s too far away and has no object of known size nearby to use as reference. Its easily possible he could be mistaken with what he saw that day, and especially considering he only recounted it, what was it, 20 years later.
No one can prove it is mundane, but equally there’s really no proof it’s extraordinary. There’s some evidence that’s mostly based on recall from an old event which seems to have some issue with what other people recall happening.
Regardless, it’s a potential hazard to pilots that needs to be reported and taken seriously to ensure pilot safety. It’s almost certainly not something directly dangerous though, or anything particularly special, but we’ll never know.
I’m sorry if this sounds like a conspiracy, but I think that China and the boys are really pushing UFO disclosure on social media to pressure the DOD into releasing classified aeronautics research on hypersonic missiles and specialized military satellites- Check out https://www.darpa.mil/ if you want to read more about what technology the military has currently.
Plenty of conspiracy theories turned out to be true decades later.
Of course UFOs aren’t aliens. They are the alien ships, dingus NASA.
K obvs
This is the best summary I could come up with:
At a congressional hearing in July, former Pentagon intelligence officer David Grusch testified that the American government has been hiding evidence of crashed UAPs and alien biological specimens.
And the same week NASA’s report came out, Mexican lawmakers were shown by journalist Jaime Maussan two tiny, 1,000-year-old bodies that he claimed were the remains of “non-human” beings.
Some sightings represent surveillance operations by foreign powers, which is why the US military considers this a national security issue.
The authors note the importance of reducing the stigma that can cause both military and commercial pilots to feel that they cannot freely report sightings.
Spergel said the study team’s goal was to characterize the hay—or the mundane phenomena— and subtract it to find the needle, or the potentially exciting discovery.
He noted that artificial intelligence can help researchers comb through massive datasets to find rare, anomalous phenomena.
The original article contains 946 words, the summary contains 145 words. Saved 85%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Usually this bot is great but this is a pretty big one to miss:
And the same week NASA’s report came out, Mexican lawmakers were shown by journalist Jaime Maussan two tiny, 1,000-year-old bodies that he claimed were the remains of “non-human” beings. Scientists have called this claim fraudulent and say the mummies may have been looted from gravesites in Peru.
AI efforts aspire to reach the accuracy of Portal 2’s Fact Sphere.
Seems like a dumb pr move from them tbh. Everyone is more likely to give them money if everyone thinks that they’re studying aliens.
That doesn’t mean they should lie and say they are studying aliens, but they should have just let people run away with their imaginations.
They are studying aliens, it’s just that when they think they might be looking at aliens it’s “organic molecules detected in clouds on Venus” and not “weird thing in the sky one time, iunno”.
Strong disagree. NASA is fundamentally a scientific organization, it’s absolutely their duty to bring a dose of scientific rationality to conversations about UFOs. And besides, NASA absolutely is studying aliens. They’re constantly doing observations of exoplanets for signs of life, as well as all the numerous missions across our solar system looking for non earth based life.
If people for some reason think that using some of the most advanced observation equipment ever developed to look for actual aliens is less exciting then tinfoiling over grainy video footage and talking about little green men, then that’s their own problem, not NASA’s. And giving into that kind of populism would just lead to public pressure on them to waste time and money chasing down conspiracies instead of doing actual science
Where did I say they should use their equipment for tinfoil stuff? I just said they should shut up and let dumb people give them money
Except those “dumb people” vote, and the people they vote for are the ones that determine which projects get funding and which don’t. I’d rather NASA continue to get funding for real science than getting all their funding funneled into investigating “tinfoil stuff”. NASA isn’t an autonomous organization, they ultimately can only do work on what congress gives them money to do
That’s fair. I retract my statement
Unfortunately NASA is not being transparent here. They created a UAP task force and would not reveal who was heading it and when it is released it turns out to be someone who’s spent his career with the DOD/Defense contractors. Not a scientist. Why are we not letting scientists handle this matter?
NASA also says they want to work to destigmatize UAPs and NHI, yet Bill Nelson slanders Grusch (highly decorated US military serviceman) and speaks down on anyone promoting more transparency here. The minimization of Grusch’s testimony all while the DOD is withholding Grusch’s security clearance and essentially stonewalling congress. Lots of reasons enough for us to be suspicious of foul play behind government figures here.
Why are we not letting scientists handle this matter?
Probably hard pressed to find any reputable scientist who wants to waste their time debunking trivial bullshit.
There are legitimate scientific organizations studying UAP, such as UAPx and the Galileo Project at Harvard.
Referring to UAP and not aliens, our government has admitted to having secret government programs monitoring/studying UAP, and other nations around the world have as well, including the UK and France who’ve both opened their information to the public. The US is uniquely secretive, withholding, and obfuscating the subject.
If you want a rational representation of valid information, I would encourage you to read my post. Everything is cited and it contains declassified US government documents and admission of the existence of UAP and secret government programs monitoring them. Again, I’m speaking in regard to UAP (Anomalous Aerial Phenomenon) and not aliens.
You’d be taken a lot more seriously if you dropped the “admission” phrasing.
What would be better phrasing? Acknowledged? It was previously classified and denied, and they have now admitted to the existence of the programs and phenomenon.
The information is valid regardless if people want to believe it. My post is thoroughly cited.
That’s cool man if you want to keep sounding like a dime store Don Quixote. The adversarial subtext of your phrasing will make the majority of people ignore you and will taint the perception of whatever you cite.
Nah, I don’t have a problem with my wording. You’re just jumping to all sorts of conclusions. I’m not responsible for other people’s ignorance and unwillingness to challenge their beliefs.
My argument is logically sound and I don’t feel it comes off like the mad scrolls of some Q-anon nut job whatsoever. I think your hang-up and useless criticism here is just a reflection of your emotional maturity level and propensity for emotional reasoning. I presented factual information with logical reasoning. You’re emotionally reasoning here.
If someone is unwilling to even open a lemmy post link and instead writes it off without any consideration, that’s just a reflection of their own ignorance and unwillingness to challenge their beliefs.
I don’t feel the need to tiptoe around the facts, and there’s always going to be people unwilling to consider the information. I’ve already done a hell of a lot, compiling all of that information and that write-up. But I’ll be sure to remember that you don’t like the way the information makes you feel next time.
Nah I was trying to help ya but it sounds like you might be closer to the mind set that I was trying to help you not sound like.
There are legitimate scientific organizations studying UAP
Tell me when they have something tangible that isn’t “here’s this thing on video that we can’t identify”. We’ve been collecting data for >80 years so I’m sure there must be something by now? Or is “fuzzy photography” the extent of it?
The term UAP, or Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon, is what has been used by the US government in referring to these objects, as the term UFO has a very apparent stigma attached to it.
UAP has the same stigma as well. You can’t say "Oh, it’s Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon while winking and nodding about aliens and hinting at conspiracies. We know what you mean.
Decades of “it might be aliens” when looking at blurry and out-of-context videos and photos deserves the stigma. It’s not aliens. It’s never aliens. All we have is “we don’t know what that thing was.” Until we do and then it’s an insect close to the camera, an internal reflection on an SLR lens, another aircraft, etc.
To jump to the conclusion that aliens is even an option is ridiculous given the number of crap we have in the skies today.
You’re clearly uneducated in the topic if you think a bug on lense is responsible for these crafts when there have been many instances in which radar has verified recordings and/or eyewitness reports. That rules out bugs.
And the UAP have been measured at temperatures that rule out birds or other warm-blooded animals.
There’s enough evidence that exists to make the belief that these physical objects exist rational and reasonable. Just because you haven’t honestly evaluated the evidence for something doesn’t mean that evidence doesn’t exist.
You’re clearly uneducated in the topic
Ugh. Just… Don’t.
There’s enough evidence that exists to make the belief that these physical objects exist rational and reasonable. Just because you haven’t honestly evaluated the evidence for something doesn’t mean that evidence doesn’t exist.
Evidence for… WHAT?
Crafts that our government has stated are not our technology, that are capable of outperforming our current aircraft/war machines, such as the F/A-18F Superhornets in the Nimitz Event.
That should be concerning to people if that air superiority exists in the hands of a possible adversary. There is also the aerospace safety hazard posed by UAP that affects both commercial and military aircraft, where there have been many reported cases of near-misses.
The Pentagon’s Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI) was mandated to produce a report on UAP, and stated in their report that:
Most of the UAP reported probably do represent physical objects given that a majority of UAP were registered across multiple sensors, to include radar, infrared, electro-optical, weapon seekers, and visual observation. … UAP clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security. Safety concerns primarily center on aviators contending with an increasingly cluttered air domain. UAP would also represent a national security challenge if they are foreign adversary collection platforms or provide evidence a potential adversary has developed either a breakthrough or disruptive technology. [11]
Of the 510 total UAP reports studied by ODNI, 171 remained “uncharacterized and unattributed,” and “some of these uncharacterized UAP appear to have demonstrated unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities, and require further analysis." [11]
Not only has the US government confirmed that UAP exist, they have acknowledged that they pose a serious safety risk to our pilots; both commercial and domestic.
Crafts that our government has stated are not our technology
We have those crafts? That would indeed be news to me.
Not only has the US government confirmed that UAP exist, they have acknowledged that they pose a serious safety risk to our pilots; both commercial and domestic.
What is a UAP? I’m not being academic I’m trying to get at the heart of the discussion. Let me rephrase this to show my point:
Not only has the US government confirmed that things reported by pilots and sensors that we don’t recognize exist, they have acknowledged that they pose a serious safety risk to our pilots; both commercial and domestic.
I’m on board with that. If a pilot reports seeing something you want to find out what it was. Could be a bird, drone, meteor, internal camera refraction, part that fell from an aircraft, space debris de-orbiting, etc.
Okay. So what? It’s not aliens. It’s unknown by your definition.
So much time and money being wasted on pseudoscientific bunkum.
If the bullshit was really some new type of atmospheric disturbance or anamoly, I’m sure they’d be interested in figuring out about that.
Sure, but like 99% of the time it’s mundane.
It’s only mundane once explained. So, like, 99% of science in general. Just keep in mind stuff like geology exists. Those are people who find rocks interesting.
“Mundane” meaning “not aliens”.
Right now the US military and NASA is in agreement that UAPs exist, there’s thousands of citizens interested in UAPs/NHI, yet not a single scientist in the past 75 years wanted to find the answer to what these UAPs are?
Science in itself is debunking trivial bullshit until you find a rock solid solution and right now we don’t have a solution.
I think NASA’s and the wider scientific community’s stance on this is less “Not a chance.” and more “If you really want us to look into this, you have to fund it.” No one is volunteering to be the official “It’s not aliens.” guy and get death threats from conspiracy theorists and shit.
And the question for us should be “How much tax money should we spend on this?” rather than “Do we want an answer?”
But do we really want an answer?
I want an answer but not from scientists. I want to know about the people who believe the aliens crash landed and the government has the spaceship. So, they have the technology to bend space and time at will or at least avoid micro-meteors the whole way. But then they get to Earth and fly directly into a tree?
Eh, shit happens even to top guns flying our latest tech. Consider the implications of the existence of life outside Earth tho. How would the public react?
The answer? You think there is only one? UAPs are a hodgepodge of anomalies. They’re not a single phenomenon. There are people in various fields who would and do study them. Odd things on a radar will certainly be of interest to radar manufacturers for exqmple.
But we all know what people mean by UFOs, er., UAPs. “I’m not saying it’s aliens. But it’s aliens…”
Spoiler: it’s not aliens.
who’s spent his career with the DOD/Defense contractors. Not a scientist.
Imagine thinking the DOD doesn’t have scientists…
Ofc they do but they’re compartmentalized as hell.
Why do you think Bill Nelson himself is a career politician, not a scientist? These are political figures in these positions, not scientists.
Wasn’t it headed by David Spergel who is an astrophysicist? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Spergel
