I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I’m far more left than any of them have ever been), but I’ve always voted for them, because they’re far better than the other option. This time they’re just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that’s not saying much, but hey, it’s better than nothing. He’s just killing himself by supporting Israel.
(Repost of my comment from the same article in another community.)
The opinions of Biden seem to be all over the map, which is weird since he is the incumbent, and we all ought to know where he stands. There are lots of people (like you) who see the progressive things he has managed to get accomplished, even with a divided Congress in these past two years. Yet, there are others who perceive him as a right-of-center false choice.
He has always had trouble defining himself, which I think is part of the reason he was a perennial Presidential Primary loser. His stutter didn’t help matters, nor his tendency to go off-script. But Trump’s ascendancy gave him the perfect opportunity to create a definition, even if that definition is “Not Trump”.
There is also a great deal of negative press out regarding Biden. Honestly if you look at policy and accomplishments he’s done quite a lot of good things. It is an uphill battle of course with Congress and the Supreme Court being what they are. We are a big country and it takes constant action to push it to a more equitable place for the majority of us.
Frankly, I think Biden has done a lot to start that push. It will take a lot more though and we could backslide terribly if we don’t keep pushing.
I love how you all ignore all the terrible policy this man voted for as a senator.
Well I guess maybe people change with maturity. He is certainly putting some good people into positions where they can do some good
Yeah I’m sure that comes as a huge comfort to the millions of people who’s lives he ruined with his 1994 stop and frisk crime bill.
So offer a solution. Who has a chance that’s currently in the running to beat Trump in November?
Provide a name or walk away.
No I’m going to keep making it clear anybody who voted for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries over the many superior options is a shit bag.
So we’re cool to bring up the past as a rebuttal to a thing someone has done in the present?
You shit your pants when you were a baby. Should we accuse you of this every day for the rest of your life?
We also used to prescribe cigarettes to asthmatic patients. Wonder why we don’t anymore ?
It’s because we learned to be better at understanding the human body. Essentially… We got smarter. But reading though your comment history- you seem to be regressing, because it seems that every point you bring up is worse than the last.
… I’m sorry. Do you use this defense when you’re talking about Trump or are you just a blatant hypocrite?
Biden is an evil person. Trump is an evil person. You shouldn’t defend either of them.
Biden is an evil person. Trump is an evil person
Bernie’s friend Biden is fucking awesome dude. Love the guy! Bernie likes Biden and I’ve never once noticed Bernie to be wrong about anything. The more you slander Biden the more I like Biden.
in that case: here’s bernie calling out biden’s bullshit
I use this defense when I see people bring up one’s past to put them back down after they’ve changed.
I use this defense when bad faith clowns try and shit on people in rehab who are trying to turn their lives around.
I use this defense whenever I see people that don’t know what they’re talking about, try and paint eh world as either black or white without even looking at the grey in between.
Your move, chuckles.
Biden hasn’t changed. He’s the same vile evil man he’s always been.
I love how you all ignore all the terrible policy this man voted for as a senator.
Like when he was one of the few senators to vote against he first Iraq War in 1993?
This is on purpose. Building confidence is hard. Destroying it is easy. Plenty of domestic and foreign actors are heavily invested in mudding Waters surrounding biden. In hopes of him failing. Their candidates getting elected. Which is turning out even easier for them seeing as our corporate publicly traded media is eagerly assisting them.
The fascists will fall in line and vote for whoever they’re offered. Simply because they’ve been told the opposite would be worse. Unfortunately the Democratic party is much more a coalition party of many disparate groups many who don’t see a lot of representation. Preferring to fall in love rather than falling in line. And they are Their Own Worst Enemy because of that.
And even though it’s a low bar. If I didn’t Administration has delivered some of the biggest wins for labor in the last 100 years. He certainly not perfect. But the alternatives are absolutely worse. The question is are we going to be able to get our s*** together and not let ourselves be manipulated again.
And that’s okay.
It’s really not, because a lot of left of center voters just won’t bother to vote for someone they don’t like.
Then frankly, they are idiots. Any foolish “protest vote” come November is just helping Trump.
I never said they were rational. I’m saying they matter. Calling them idiots does nothing to keep Trump out of power.
Maybe 2024 is the year people realize you can’t shame voters to the polls. 2016 should’ve been the year that lesson was learned, but alas, here we are.
i’m convinced that there are permanent blind spots that all societies have and this is the american blind spot.
i also wonder if it spells our demise as a society as well.
The protest vote is the one cast against something, exactly like democrats are gonna do in November,
We aren’t “protesting” anything. We are safeguarding America’s longstanding core values of democracy and the rule of law.
Thats cute
We don’t value democracy and the rule of law because they are “cute”. We value them because countries that don’t have them are a nightmare to live in.
The party that sues to keep 3rd parties off the ballot, is a private corporation that can select their own candidates, and gives voters no choice but their hand selected candidate is the party of democracy?
They are voting for Jill Stein and the worm guy anyway.
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With no aspirations toward better than “okay”.
Didn’t know I could conjure up a new candidate just by aspiring to it.
I was referring to the party’s aspirations. They have none beyond “ok.”
If you’re a progressive, Biden has been the most progressive president since Kennedy. Lol.
If you’re not. Are you willing to have American democracy end, because you personally weren’t courted by the president?
Knowing EC, it’s very much the latter. In fact I suspect you should expect to be called a genocide supporter by them. Since you have dared not say something horrible about Biden.
What’s EC? Electoral College?
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Ahhh gotcha. Yeah I’m new to the site as a reddit exile and still figuring out everything here.
Yeah, those people are just tiresome, and they have no idea how geopolitics works. It’s annoying, and one of the effects of republicans cutting funding for schools and not teaching civics anymore.
I agree. And welcome to Lemmy 🙂 yesterday was my first anniversary of joining. It’s a very different place from Reddit. But it still has a lot of similar problems unfortunately. However quite a bit more can be done about it. So it’s definitely worth sticking with
Purported positions?
Fuck, tell me what my positions are, wise and ancient omniscient one.
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most progressive president since Kennedy
Forget Gaza for a second, what is progressive about KOSA?. What is progressive about getting rid of the ability to claim asylum?. What is progressive about labeling peaceful protests as against the law?
Biden may be better than Trump, but don’t dare say he is more progressive that Kennedy - or even Obama.
If you’re a progressive, Biden has been the most progressive president since Kennedy. Lol.
Not the flex you think it is
Biden has been the most progressive president since Kennedy.
LBJ was more progressive than Biden, and he took office after whom?
That’s up for debate. For me, he’s the most liberal since Kennedy but if you think it’s LBJ instead, that’s fine too!
Oh, he’s certainly the most liberal since Kennedy. But he’s not progressive except in the slogans of centrists.
I think that’s a no true Scotsman kind of thing. Biden has done plenty of progressive policies. He’s forgiven billions in student loan debt (and wanted to forgive more but R courts are political), he’s passed infrastructure, and he’s also passed some bills to keep the cost of medicine down.
Could he do more? Sure. If voters showed up at the midterms and gave him a D house, he could have done more. But they didn’t.
Way too often, people let perfect be the enemy of good. Biden is good, not perfect.
He’s forgiven billions in student loan debt
Using a program signed into law by George W Bush. Does that mean Bush was also a progressive?
Sure. If voters showed up at the midterms and gave him a D house, he could have done more. But they didn’t.
If Democrats had used the majorities we gave them during his first two years instead of getting in their own way, this would be a convincing argument.
With no aspirations toward better than “okay”.
When you take the first step on, say, a hike, do you have no aspirations to take another and another?
Or would you say… well, this first step is too hard… I’m just gonna lie down and take a nap?
Where is all this “incremental progress” you centerists always talk about? Is it in the room with us now?
Where is all this “incremental progress” you centerists always talk about? Is it in the room with us now?
Undoubtedly you have the privilege not to notice it.
Billionaires are richer than ever. Housing is more expensive than ever. Food is more expensive than ever. Healthcare is more expensive than ever. Education is more expensive than ever. The planet is hotter than ever.
Are you referring to the pretty rainbow flags that McDonald’s hangs once a year? Or the BLM posters in the middle of a gated community with all white residents?
Go on. Tell me about this incremental progress.
Go on. Tell me about this incremental progress.
I can be out and not fear for my life. I can even marry. My partner now only rarely gets “gook” or “chink” yelled at them.
99.8% of the time when this stuff comes out of folks it’s because they are white and heterosexual and usually male.
For people secure in their white, hetero-normative privilege it’s understandable that they only care about things that affect them… and there isn’t all that much that affects them directly. But the truth is this is a VERY different world here in the US than when I was growing up. It’s now a world that despite the noise from the MAGA crowd I can exist comfortably and securely as opposed to having to hide in a closet.
Whenever I have this discussion with folks who aren’t gay or trans or BIPOC, it never occurs to them that there is a difference. Universally it turns out that since they aren’t affected by these huge cultural shifts, they also don’t look at the changes that make life easier for other groups. The simple fact that federal workers now have a $15 minimum wage means that a number of my peers now are not starving working for public lands agencies. That a number of labor laws have been enacted (including recently the non-compete thing) that makes discrimination against protected groups doesn’t affect people like you because you are not typically discriminated against. In some cases the pandemic relief for you folks was just a nice bonus to spend on luxuries, not groceries. The grants for schools didn’t matter because if you have kids they go to nice schools already.
I’m not going to argue with you - it’s impossible. But please understand that your incredibly narrow view of the world is not shared by those who have experienced this seismic shift over the last 2-3 decades.
Ok. You’re telling me this is incremental progress because what you’ve gained is worth more than everything else that’s gotten worse. Fine. I’ll accept that in the context of this conversation.
How much more expensive does housing, education, healthcare and food have to get before we can focus on it? How hot does the planet have to get before we can focus on it?
When do we stop focusing on a specific experience someone has because of their race, gender or whatever else because the overall experience of everyone has gotten so bad we need to address it?
Billionaires are richer than ever. Housing is more expensive than ever. Food is more expensive than ever. Education is more expensive than ever. The planet is hotter than ever.
Thanks to everybody who didn’t vote Dem.
Healthcare is more expensive than ever.
Not for people who have Obamacare vs before Obamacare.
How many people do you think had $400 monthly premiums for individual plans back in 2007?
Or would you say… well, this first step is too hard… I’m just gonna lie down and take a nap?
That’s what the party did with the public option and increasing the minimum wage.
That’s what the party did with the public option and increasing the minimum wage.
So because you didn’t get everything you want you are just gonna stamp your feet, take you ball and go home?
That’s EXACTLY what they do. Every four years. The Bernie bros did the same thing in 2016, and again in 2020. And these clowns think they’re pulling some new grassroots movement. They have no idea that they’re already considered to be non voters.
They’re doing nothing. And by that I mean, they’re doing a LOT more nothing than even they think they are. Their little “protest” is completely meaningless.
Unless their intent is to get trump elected, and for some- this is the case.
The Bernie bros did the same thing in 2016, and again in 2020. And these clowns think they’re pulling some new grassroots movement.
A greater percentage of Sanders supporters voted for Clinton than Clinton supporters voted for Obama. Clinton supporters formed a PAC to get McCain elected.
They’re doing nothing. And by that I mean, they’re doing a LOT more nothing than even they think they are. Their little “protest” is completely meaningless.
Since they can be safely ignored, why aren’t you ignoring them?
Unless their intent is to get trump elected, and for some- this is the case.
Why do centrists pretend that those to their left are all the way to their right?
Because they are. Both are trying to get Trump elected. On purpose or not.
Where do centrists keep getting this?
People to your left are allowed to be dissatisfied even when you get everything you want.
Yeah this “you’re throwing a tantrum because you didn’t get everything you wanted” is rich coming from the people who got Joe Biden elected in the 2020 primaries. It’s pure projection on their part. They would throw a tantrum if they didn’t get everything they wanted. The moment progressives start dominating primaries these people will stop showing up to vote in the general election.
It’s pure ego. They’ve built their personality around being “the good guys” compared to Republicans so when someone comes along and says “we need to do more” it’s a crisis for them. They can’t let anyone accomplish more than they did because it would force them to admit they became complacent.
Democrat voting Boomers are still Boomers at the end of the day. Selfish pieces of shit.
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Yeah this “you’re throwing a tantrum because you didn’t get everything you wanted” is rich coming from the people who got Joe Biden elected in the 2020 primaries.
How do you know that? I voted Bernie and I think you’re throwing a tantrum.
They would throw a tantrum if they didn’t get everything they wanted.
I voted Bernie. Not throwing a tantrum. I’m thrilled that Biden is the most progressive president since LBJ if not FDR.
What should they be doing instead?
Getting used to being disappointed.
As opposed to last time, when I voted for Biden to stop trump
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Or the time before that, when I voted for Kerry to stop Bush.
As far as I’m concerned we only have one legitimate party at the moment and that’s the one I’m going to vote for.
But, even though Biden isn’t nearly as progressive as I’d like, he still beats the brakes off of any other democratic president we’ve had other than Jimmy Carter, so I wouldn’t say he’s doing a bad job per se.
If he were running against a “rational” Republican I’d still vote for him, so I wouldn’t say I’m motivated solely by my hatred for Trump.Biden, DNC, establishment Democrats and Boomer Democrat voters: Okay guys we need to figure out who to elevate in the 2028 Republican primaries who’s just as vile as Trump so those uppity leftists will have to keep voting for our pro-corporate asses.
Okay guys we need to figure out who to elevate in the 2028 Republican primaries
Not a single Dem has that power nor would have wished a GOP candidate as bad for America as Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
who’s just as vile as Trump
I’m not expecting anyone as vile as Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump although the GOP does have a knack for continually disappointing America with their bad candidates.
will have to keep voting for our pro-corporate asses.
Corporations must be super mad at “pro-corporate” Joe Biden for raising the minimum corporate tax rate from 0% to 15% even though tax rates are the single thing that matter above all else.
so those uppity leftists
The indispensible prerequisite for moving the Overton window to the left is for the GOP to lose elections. And leftist who doesn’t understand that will automatically transform themselves into a perpetual Loser.
Not a single Dem has that power nor would have wished a GOP candidate as bad for America as Convicted Felon and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
Factually false.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-2016-donald-trump-214428/
Factually true.
Regardless about what some random idiot reporter said 8 years ago, (1) no Dem has any powers to select a GOP nominee and (2) Dems aren’t responsible for how terrible the RNC’s nominees are .
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Just did.
Not me. I’m motivated on making sure myself and all my loved ones get to continue to vote. Stopping Trump and voting for Biden just so happen to line up for that.
Exactly. “Voting for Biden just to stop trump” is a pretty meaningless statement.
At this point, I would say nearly all of them are, but then again, at this point- that’s all the reason one needs.
This is a DIRE situation we are in. It needs to be taken seriously.
This is a DIRE situation we are in. It needs to be taken seriously.
in every single election cycle, it’s always been that red maga falls in line while blue maga shames everyone into voting for a guy that is 99% same as the red maga guy, but, of course, that naturally doesn’t work; if you look at people’s behavior now, compared to before, the situation appears the same because everyone’s doing the same thing.
if the situation were truly dire; then people would behave accordingly; but they’re not.
if the situation were truly dire; then people would behave accordingly; but they’re not.
That’s a completely false assumption.
[How they made Germany great again: The Nazi social media campaign of 1932]
Biden said he’s going to be a dictator for 99% of day one?
ROFL.
.ml.
One day the USA will get a president that has more to offer than not being his opponent.
No they won’t, their lesser evil bullshit will keep creating a progressively larger evil. So there will always be a boogeyman to sell.
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What if Trump loses and runs in 2028?
If Trump gets a sound thrashing, losing the Republicans seats in the process, the rats will flee the sinking ship.
Like increasing the minimum tax on corporations from 0% to 15% while needing 2 Dem senators who later left the party for being too leftwing?
And that day is upon you now.
I know I am. I mean it it’s not like I would vote for any Republican because I have yet to see one that lines up with my philosophy. And since we have a shitty to party system, I can’t reasonably expect to be able to have a voice by voting for anybody else, so I have no choice but to compromise by voting for the lesser of two bastards. We seriously need ranked voting in this country so badly. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s so much better than what we’re doing now.
Of course. He’d never win if not for the alternative being a fascist convicted of multiple kinds of fraud.
Hell, he almost didn’t the first time around and that was WITHOUT being a willing participant in numerous crimes against humanity!
Im not American but doesnt everyone usually vote to keep the worst out not the best one in?
Kinda… mostly because the best ones never become candidates. The parties push the candidates that serve the interests of the partys donors then try to convince the voters they actually care.
Most elections are a choice between two mediocre candidates.
With the current state of the Republican party, it’s truly about getting more of them out of power. Unless you’re a white Christofascist bootlicker.
I used to mainly vote third party as a protest vote for both sides to do better. Didn’t matter the party, really.
I voted for Obama out of genuinely wanting him in office. I thought he was decent overall but he did disappoint me.
I voted for Biden purely to keep Trump out of office. Even so, I think Biden has largely been a better President than Obama was, though the Gaza/Israel thing is really testing that. I would love to have a more progressive choice, but any time I am disappointed in Biden, I just remind myself the alternative and I would crawl across a mile of broken glass to vote for him.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
If you mean “unique in 240 years of American history” I agree.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
as will be the next, and the one after that, as well as all of the ones following; meanwhile you’ll continue crawling over broken glass and giving a pass to ongoing genocides because you believe it’s better than the alternative somehow without realizing there’s one alternative.
no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers and 2 of those have been placed before and you’re told that you must select one.
Told? It’s just math. If you want to change things, you have to either do it from within an existing party or wait for an existing party to implode and then maybe there is an opportunity for change.
I’m fifty. I spent a lot of fucking elections wasting my vote on third parties, thinking I was sending some kind of message or making things better, but here we are. I wasted every single vote prior to 2008. Would anything be different if I hadn’t? No. Would anything be different if a bunch of people hadn’t? I don’t know. Maybe.
as i said before: no one knows the right answer, but there are plenty of wrong answers, we know they’re wrong because we’ve tried them and things don’t get better (and we sometimes try it again with the same results); we’re only allowed to pick from among those wrong answers only.
trying anything otherwise might also be a wrong answer; but we will never know because there are plenty who will shame you if don’t pick the same wrong answer they do.
Fair. Government is hard. There is no such thing as a right answer. Just shit that we find out later didn’t work. I’m not happy with either of the two parties; I don’t really believe in parties anyway. But here we are.
Fight the good fight, my friend, but just don’t let fascism take us. My grandfather fought against the fascists in WW2, and here I am doing the same (though admittedly with way less personal risk) 80 years later. I don’t like it, but it is what it is.
So I would anecdotally say this election is outside the norm.
I worry that it’s the new baseline.
New baseline?! I have often gotten the feeling that you are an adolescent. It would explain so many of the shitty hot takes and bad ideas. But this really kind of solidifies it. Being young is not an insult however. We all were at one point in time. And we all matured and grew up.
This is so not a new thing though. Trump is literally Reagan part 2. And that’s just within the last 50 years that’s not even mentioning Nixon or all the others that came before him. The truth is this is been the way it has always been. It sucks that so much of the energy of youth is wasted tilting at windmills. Instead of actually understanding and working to improve things. Actively demotivating non Republican voters in an effort to get the Republican candidate to win. That sounds like a real good way to improve things.
As someone who lived through the Reagan administrations, Trump is far, far worse than Reagan part 2.
Granted there are similarities such as Reagan ignoring AIDS and Trump ignoring Covid, but at the same time, Reagan was far more likeable while committing actual war crimes in the Iran/Contra affair, and having the CIA dealing cocaine.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Contra_affair
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_involvement_in_Contra_cocaine_trafficking
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Removed, civility.
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40% of voting-eligible Americans simply don’t vote at all.
I mean Boomer Democrat voters could sit down and ask themselves “Is voting for a geriatric establishment white man really the move in the 2020 primaries if we want those “young” (read: anyone under the age of 65) voters to engage in politics”
But they won’t because even though they vote Democrat they’re still Boomers. And Boomers can’t handle not getting their way.
If young voters wanted anything maybe they’d get off their whiny asses and vote EVERY TIME and change things.
If theyre so numerous and so progressive why can’t they just take the party over? Why can’t they vote progressives in every house district, every senator race, who would then nominate a progressive for president the next time?
What a pathetic defense for Boomers being selfish shit bags.
This is not a defense of boomers at all.
It’s a criticism of lazy ass young voters, of which I was one once. Maybe if you did one thing like boomers (VOTE- EVERY- TIME) then you’d get your way.
But then I guess you wouuldn’t get to be the perpetual victim and wah wah wah, the world is so mean.
But then I guess you wouuldn’t get to be the perpetual victim and wah wah wah, the world is so mean.
This is a tacit defense of Boomers.
If you have a non proportional system where parties don’t make coalitions, there’s no other choice (unless you live in a region where a specific party always wins with a majority of the votes, then do what you want).
Wasn’t the case with Obama, as one easy example
Well, millennials voted for Obama because he genuinely inspired hope. Then we saw how he governed and it killed our entire generation’s sense of hope.
Then you saw Biden being a better president than Obama because he was more experienced. Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says
LOL, if that were answer, then Biden would be judged on the anti-drug legislation he spearheaded in '84, '86, and '88 that gave us expanded sentences for possession, civil asset forfeiture, and the racist sentencing disparity between crack and powdered cocaine. He’d also be judged on the 1994 crime bill he co-authored that led to the largest increase in mass incarceration in 40 years. Oh, and let’s not forget the time he teamed up with Robert Byrd, a Senator and Klansman, to pass anti-bussing legislation. Point is, Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he’s done.
Biden has benefited a lot from people listening to what he says and forgetting what he’s done.
You mean forgetting that Biden has the lowest unemployment rate since the 1960’s? Forgetting that he raised the minimum tax rate on corporations from 0% to 15%? Forgetting that that every few days there is a record stock market high? That nobody could have handled Covid or Ukraine better?
Biden is the victim of a lot of people forgetting what he’s done.
I don’t think you understand my point. You made a comment about how I should judge politicians on their actions, not their words. So I pointed out that Biden’s actions before his election included anti-bussing legislation, several racist drug bills, and the worst expansion of the prison-industrial complex in history. I’m glad you’re happy with Biden’s performance as President, but you clearly ignored a lot of what he did as a Senator and listened to what he said as a presidential candidate (or you really like racist drug policies and mass incarceration).
I couldn’t care less what Biden did in the 1970’s. It is ridiculous to call him “racist”, as he was the running mate of the first black president.
Your original comment:
Maybe the answer here is to pay more attention to what a politician does than what he says.
Your current comment:
I couldn’t care less what Biden did in the 1970’s.
Maybe the answer here is to not leave condescending replies to other people’s comments if you’re just going to completely contradict yourself and negate your own point.
Not true at all. Some of them are actively trying to get the worst one in.
I generally like Biden and I’m still more motivated by voting against trump. I’m amazed on a daily basis how many ignorant school shooter wannabes roam around here chanting fantasies without any basis in reality convincing themselves that they aren’t culpable if they don’t accept reality.
Yes. Please do be motivated by stopping Trump!
And especially don’t be demotivated to go voting because you don’t like the alternative.
this is every election since ive been old enough to vote in them
I’m just done “trusting” Republicans in general. Romney seems to be the only one left that has a moral compass (that doesn’t just point to “Nazi Jesus”). Even then I don’t believe he’d give a damn about the poorest among us as long as he could point to record stock prices and low unemployment.
Water is wet.
