I would be curious to see the numbers but I don’t think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn’t help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
Unfortunately “We aren’t Donald Trump” wasn’t a winning strategy two of the three times they tried it.
I wonder what two terrible choices we are gonna have in 2028. Watch it be like fuckin Nancy Pelosi with an exoskeleton holding her up vs Dan Crenshaw who will have replaced his eye patch with a gun by then.
See, this is where communication always breaks down…
If a progressive is politically active right now it’s safe to assume that they held their nose and voted D.
Which I’ve done just like I’ve always done.
But we tried to warn people trump was going to win if Dems kept moving right…
Dems kept moving right, and we were right. Then when we try to talk about how to win next time and how to gain back all the votes moving right cost us…
We get people trying to say we’re the problem because we want to fucking win.
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
I got a big post history, plenty of opportunities for you to find a single comment where I’ve ever advocated for not voting for the least evil candidate in the general.
But if you got a little faith you can take my word it’s not in here.
Inside our current system, the most powerful act a citizen can perform is voting.
That “inside” is doing increasingly heavy lifting these days. Seems to me that increasingly the only successful change comes from working outside the system.
Yes, it is possible to be extremely ignorant of the effectiveness of various political actions.
Whether you are for or against voting, claiming it’s the most powerful act a citizen can perform is completely absurd. I don’t know a single informed person of any ideology who thinks this.
Maybe I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. The way I understand it, it’s very misleading or incorrect. There are plenty of actions people can take that are far more impactful than voting. I guess whether those various actions are categorized as inside or outside of the system might be up for debate in some cases. But I’m not sure why you would even be imposing that restriction in the first place.
The reason I said, “inside the system” is that we need to use the avenues provided to us to try to fight back along side other means, such as protests. We need to unify now more than ever, so lumping everyone who uses the system to affect change into “blue MAGA” is only harming progress.
I agree completely with the need to unify. I just want people to stop thinking politics begins and ends with voting. Even if you don’t want to do anything disruptive there are still things you can do like canvassing or letter-writing or becoming local party delegate and influencing parties from the inside. I largely agree with leftists that the system will never be completely transformed from the inside but it’s better than doing nothing.
However I also think we’re getting to the point where more disruptive civil resistance actions will be necessary.
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn’t cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I’m doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It’s not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he’s highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren’t a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn’t just happen outta nowhere.
I acknowledge that the Dems MUST change. That’s super true.
But based on real historical information about trump, plus his clear intentions for this term, I would have elected an incontinent Chihuahua over trump. At least the Chihuahua would have just shit on the floor of the oval office rather than trashing minority/immigrant rights, climate/science progress, and health research and vaccine implementation all in the first week.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
True. People keep saying there was nothing different from the Harris campaign that made her different from Biden, but when you compare the status quo, even the version of the status quo that Biden’s biggest critics were inventing, it would have still been preferable to re-electing the guy who tried to literally steal the election last time. We could have only been so lucky to have the status quo.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
The inescapable conclusion is that, despite their rhetoric, the Democratic Party did not actually see Trump as a risk to the status quo – at least not the status quo they actually care about (their donors’ plutocratic gravy train), as opposed to the status quo they claim to care about (egalitarianism/civil rights).
In other words, “the Dems MUST change” is a huge understatement. It also has zero chance of happening – other than doubling down on the “we must court the mythological Enlightened Centrist and move right” change for the worse – under the current party leadership.
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
You make some valid points, certainly. But what people are failing to recognize is none of that matters now.
We had one day, or one vote to stop this tidal wave of evil and we did not do it. Did the DNC fail to appear on a sports talk show, or drive a garbage truck around? Did they not mobilize a nationwide caucus to choose the best candidate from every single human alive today with just four months to go? Yeah, i guess, whatever - it doesn’t matter.
People who refused to stop trump because of Palestine helped ensure that situation would get 100x worse. And they were complete ignorant assholes about it. Dog forbid they learn anything from this.
That’s true but you can’t attribute exactly why, which was my point.
You can make some correlations about identifying key issues to a given group, but you can’t guarantee their absence wasn’t just due to either not being able to vote due to work or some other legitimate limitation on their ability, or just being a shitty lazy citizen, or protest absence
It wouldn’t have been a landslide, but it certainly assured the worst case scenario, MAGA sweeping all 3.
Who knows how it would have gone down otherwise, maybe the Democrats regained the house, maybe held onto the Senate. Maybe Trump would have lost, but Republicunts held onto Congress.
Who knows, but any of those would have been 10000x better than letting Drump get a hold of all 3.
A lot of the House Senate races are likely due to the “victory fund” nonsense Hillary started and was then passed down to Biden and Kamala
The way it gets away donation limits is using the max from state parties. The last time we got to see the books was after 2016, and states got like 1% of what was donated “for them” to the DNC and Clinton campaigns
There’s no sign anything has changed, and the neoliberals running the party have no requirements to disclose them
So I just assume if they’re hiding the books, they’re hiding grifts at this point.
If you think white people have problems because of brown people, you’re a stupid fuck. White people collect all the money that makes white people poor.
“It’s pretty cool that MAGA Elon has so much money and my life sucks.”
I would be curious to see the numbers but I don’t think the pro Palestine protest voters cost the Democrats the election. It definitely didn’t help, but the Dems shat the bed in way more ways than just the Palestine situation.
Pretty much. They didn’t offer anything their constituents wanted except for escape from DJT.
Unfortunately “We aren’t Donald Trump” wasn’t a winning strategy two of the three times they tried it.
I wonder what two terrible choices we are gonna have in 2028. Watch it be like fuckin Nancy Pelosi with an exoskeleton holding her up vs Dan Crenshaw who will have replaced his eye patch with a gun by then.
If they did, then all the neolibs were wrong that voters don’t care about Palestine…
Which logically means the party needs to move to the left at least enough so that genocide isn’t acceptable.
Instead, they act like fucking trump supporters and brag that a genocide is still happening.
There’s zero logic or empathy with them, which is why some people call them “blue maga”.
They’re the ones that didn’t stop watching CNN even after the new buyers blatantly and publicly said their goal was to become the fox news if he left.
You are aware that people can hold two beliefs at once, right?
So, not voting and encouraging others not to vote because “blue MAGA” is actively helping the people who are currently enacting genocide+.
See, this is where communication always breaks down…
If a progressive is politically active right now it’s safe to assume that they held their nose and voted D.
Which I’ve done just like I’ve always done.
But we tried to warn people trump was going to win if Dems kept moving right…
Dems kept moving right, and we were right. Then when we try to talk about how to win next time and how to gain back all the votes moving right cost us…
We get people trying to say we’re the problem because we want to fucking win.
I got a big post history, plenty of opportunities for you to find a single comment where I’ve ever advocated for not voting for the least evil candidate in the general.
But if you got a little faith you can take my word it’s not in here.
That “inside” is doing increasingly heavy lifting these days. Seems to me that increasingly the only successful change comes from working outside the system.
Yes, it is possible to be extremely ignorant of the effectiveness of various political actions.
Whether you are for or against voting, claiming it’s the most powerful act a citizen can perform is completely absurd. I don’t know a single informed person of any ideology who thinks this.
Phrasing matters. There is a reason I put “Inside the system”.
What is the reason?
Maybe I don’t understand what you’re trying to say here. The way I understand it, it’s very misleading or incorrect. There are plenty of actions people can take that are far more impactful than voting. I guess whether those various actions are categorized as inside or outside of the system might be up for debate in some cases. But I’m not sure why you would even be imposing that restriction in the first place.
The reason I said, “inside the system” is that we need to use the avenues provided to us to try to fight back along side other means, such as protests. We need to unify now more than ever, so lumping everyone who uses the system to affect change into “blue MAGA” is only harming progress.
I agree completely with the need to unify. I just want people to stop thinking politics begins and ends with voting. Even if you don’t want to do anything disruptive there are still things you can do like canvassing or letter-writing or becoming local party delegate and influencing parties from the inside. I largely agree with leftists that the system will never be completely transformed from the inside but it’s better than doing nothing.
However I also think we’re getting to the point where more disruptive civil resistance actions will be necessary.
Pro-Palestine protest votes didn’t cost the Dems the election, but that a single group was not the deciding factor in a contest does not absolve them of responsibility. IE single-issue pro-Israel voters probably were not the reason for Trump’s victory, but they still deserve a portion of the blame in voting for Trump.
And many of these selfsame pro-Palestine protest vote types are continuing their dumbass games even as Trump greenlights fascism both at home and abroad - like everyone fucking told them he would.
Well said. I really wish people understood that blame can be shared because they really don’t seem to understand that and haven’t since November.
Because the effect is the same. Sorry, again, you might finally experience what others have been.
Well many folks stayed home, and there’s no number for that (by intention…staying home is staying home) so it would be hard to quantify.
But apathy in the face of a trump second term is worth discussing, given what was common knowledge about him by then
I think the 2024 election cycle failure falls almost exclusively on the shoulders of the Democrats.
Yeah Trump and his bullshit obviously played a part in where we ended up, but I genuinely believe that it more so came down to how the Democrats handled things in the years leading up to and during the election. I know people want to shift blame and point fingers. You could even make the argument that I’m doing that right now, but the data says otherwise.
It’s not like Trump is some generally beloved figure that was already super popular. No he’s highly controversial. Many old school Republicans and conservatives despise the guy.
So how does someone that nobody on the left likes and significant chunks on the right also aren’t a fan of end up in the office again?
At some point the democratic party need to actually reflect on where they went wrong instead of just pointing fingers and trying to shift blame.
At the end of the day it’s the job of the party to earn the votes of the people. They clearly didn’t earn enough votes.
Blue lost ground to red in every single state. That type of thing doesn’t just happen outta nowhere.
I acknowledge that the Dems MUST change. That’s super true.
But based on real historical information about trump, plus his clear intentions for this term, I would have elected an incontinent Chihuahua over trump. At least the Chihuahua would have just shit on the floor of the oval office rather than trashing minority/immigrant rights, climate/science progress, and health research and vaccine implementation all in the first week.
So if there’s criticism of dems, which is valid, there’s a seeming lack of acknowledgement of the risks trump poses, which are in great excess to anything DEM status quo
True. People keep saying there was nothing different from the Harris campaign that made her different from Biden, but when you compare the status quo, even the version of the status quo that Biden’s biggest critics were inventing, it would have still been preferable to re-electing the guy who tried to literally steal the election last time. We could have only been so lucky to have the status quo.
The inescapable conclusion is that, despite their rhetoric, the Democratic Party did not actually see Trump as a risk to the status quo – at least not the status quo they actually care about (their donors’ plutocratic gravy train), as opposed to the status quo they claim to care about (egalitarianism/civil rights).
In other words, “the Dems MUST change” is a huge understatement. It also has zero chance of happening – other than doubling down on the “we must court the mythological Enlightened Centrist and move right” change for the worse – under the current party leadership.
You make some valid points, certainly. But what people are failing to recognize is none of that matters now.
We had one day, or one vote to stop this tidal wave of evil and we did not do it. Did the DNC fail to appear on a sports talk show, or drive a garbage truck around? Did they not mobilize a nationwide caucus to choose the best candidate from every single human alive today with just four months to go? Yeah, i guess, whatever - it doesn’t matter.
People who refused to stop trump because of Palestine helped ensure that situation would get 100x worse. And they were complete ignorant assholes about it. Dog forbid they learn anything from this.
Yo can do some demographic analysis on it and that points to: white suburban men didn’t shou up to vote.
Here’s a video discussing the data
That’s true but you can’t attribute exactly why, which was my point.
You can make some correlations about identifying key issues to a given group, but you can’t guarantee their absence wasn’t just due to either not being able to vote due to work or some other legitimate limitation on their ability, or just being a shitty lazy citizen, or protest absence
It wouldn’t have been a landslide, but it certainly assured the worst case scenario, MAGA sweeping all 3.
Who knows how it would have gone down otherwise, maybe the Democrats regained the house, maybe held onto the Senate. Maybe Trump would have lost, but Republicunts held onto Congress.
Who knows, but any of those would have been 10000x better than letting Drump get a hold of all 3.
Now everyone is screwed in some way.
A lot of the House Senate races are likely due to the “victory fund” nonsense Hillary started and was then passed down to Biden and Kamala
The way it gets away donation limits is using the max from state parties. The last time we got to see the books was after 2016, and states got like 1% of what was donated “for them” to the DNC and Clinton campaigns
There’s no sign anything has changed, and the neoliberals running the party have no requirements to disclose them
So I just assume if they’re hiding the books, they’re hiding grifts at this point.
What do you mean don’t blame the brown people for White America’s problems/identity crisis?
If you think white people have problems because of brown people, you’re a stupid fuck. White people collect all the money that makes white people poor.
“It’s pretty cool that MAGA Elon has so much money and my life sucks.”
Agreed 💯
Fuckin what?