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And how many of those years were ICE straight up kidnapping people to throw into dungeons?
Ask the ICE victims because they were the scary brown people plotting the next 9/11 but never found guilty.
All of them. It was their founding mandate. It’s simply operating more openly and at unimaginable scale this year.
That’s simply untrue, show me one example when they weren’t given due process. Even the ones they caught mere feet accross the border would get to see a judge before going back. There was no accidental deportation of citizens or people there legally, and it was an discussion first, deport later scenario.
These are completely different in every way and to compare them being the same is a disservice to everyone.
Gitmo is a whole other beast.
I agree, there was some form of due process before.
That due process however was mostly a sham. Immigration courts are a show trial. They aren’t part of the judicial branch. The “judges” work for the same guy as the prosecutors.
If the judge doesn’t do as the president likes, they can be fired. Same with the prosecutors. These are shows put on so we can call ourselves a law abiding society.
EDIT: The torture prisons are new however.
Immigration courts are severely overburdened. You want to see how shit our whole justice system is have every American start filing frivolous law suits. This is how scientology got its protected status.
Immigration courts have always been kangaroo courts. For example, there’s no right to an attorney, and young children have been made to defend themselves against threat of deportation. That’s not due process by any stretch of the imagination.
To say “there was no accidental deportation of people there legally” is completely absurd. Are you suggesting that not a single immigration court ever made a single mistake?
The “disservice to everyone” is you trying to whitewash the system and pretending that courts that require 6 year olds to defend themselves with no council is somehow a legitimate, fair system, just because the orange man wasn’t the one in charge of it.
.5 (so far)
weird how you focus on Democrats when the Republicans are the problem here
They’re both problems, and fixing the Democrats is the solution to both problems. Democrats repeatedly embracing the status quo is what lets Republicans keep winning, and Republicans won’t change as long as they’re winning.
A good third of the country is dumber than rocks and closer to evil than any other plurality in recent history besides Nazi Germany and Zionists (they’re literally the same ethnocultural group at large, lol). How is that supposed to be fixed by a Democrat winning anything?
everyone who gives a fuck knows republicans are the problem, what many people don’t realize is that the democrats merrily sit at the same table as republicans, so people need to be informed about that so they can recognize that both parties are shit and there needs to be actual change.
So who’s supposed to oppose the Republicans who we know are responsible for most bad things happening?
Because if the democrats aren’t interested in opposing them we need another party that’s willing to oppose Republicans.
So who’s supposed to oppose the Republicans
Democrats, to the best of their willingness.
And it’s on us to force ranked choice voting so we don’t have only two fucking options.
Force ranked choice voting by… loudly supporting them no matter what they do?
Force is a relative concept, it seems
Force ranked choice voting by voting heavily in the primaries. Certainly not by handing the election to the Republicans.
voting heavily
That’s not how that works.
It’s like a period. We want lots of flow
Weird how all these anti-Democrats think that the only competitive left party in the US failing will somehow lead to the Republicans relinquishing power instead of consolidating it.
Russia had two or three fair elections after the fall of the Soviet Union, until Putin came into power and now he “wins” every election with 98% of the vote.
But I’m sure if the Democratic Party disappeared tomorrow then somehow Republicans would just give up their power. Lol.
And all of these “vote-blue or die” people are the reason the Dems are totally fucking useless and only pretend to care.
Protip, you can still vote blue while knowing they are totally fucking useless clowns, sucking their dick while you do it doesnt change anything.
Lol bro, go ahead and don’t vote then. Maybe if we let the GOP win all three branches uncontested for the next century and they dismantle education, gerrymander or just outright remove fair elections, and kill the planet with climate change, then people will feel really bad and adopt your politics. It’s worked so many times in the past.
Also there’s a difference between valid criticisms of the Democratic Party and this post which is demonizing them on the same level as the GOP simply because Democrats spent money on their border patrol. As if Obama or Biden were the ones who introduced Alligator Alcatraz.
Lol bro, go ahead and don’t vote then.
You’ll get the policies you want either way.
I literally just listed multiple progressive policies the Democrats passed. Still waiting for someone to provide one example of how not voting has helped anyone. Amazing how privileged and dumb your take is, although ultimately I guess it doesn’t matter because you’re basically proud of being completely inconsequential.
I literally just listed multiple progressive policies the Democrats passed.
Ok. You started with Supreme Court that only ruled on gay marriage because the cowardly legislators we vote on were too scared of or complicit with bigots to actually pass on their own.
Obamacare was a heritage foundation policy that the worthless corrupt democrats watered down, but it’s the last thing of any consequence your party passed and you and the rest of the centrists have been coasting on being able to pass republican policy ever since. Great “work”.
And that was it. Two things. Taking credit for the judicial branch and touting republican policy as a huge win.
Now tell us how you idolize ICE some more.
Ok. You started with Supreme Court that only ruled on gay marriage because the cowardly legislators we vote on were too scared of or complicit with bigots to actually pass on their own.
You realize Supreme Court justices are still the products of elections, right? People elect Presidents who appoint Supreme Court Justices. Obergefell v. Hodges was a 5-4 decision, so if just one of those Justices was not appointed, then the decision fails.
Obamacare was a heritage foundation policy that the worthless corrupt democrats watered down, but it’s the last thing of any consequence your party passed and you and the rest of the centrists have been coasting on being able to pass republican policy ever since. Great “work”.
It’s funny how you’re trying to hand wave away policy that helps millions of people while the only alternative solution you’re offering is to not vote for the left wing party in a two-party system.
Now tell us how you idolize ICE some more.
Find me one country in the world that does not have a border patrol agency or does not spend money on border enforcement. Valid criticisms of ICE would be pointing out how differently it operates under different party administrations.
I have now realized as I login to this account on my computer instead of phone that this is lemmy.ml post and I’m talking to Tankies. I don’t respect your opinion and think you are a joke so I’m going to stop engaging further. If you live in the US then congratulations on having on zero impact and unquestionably worsening your own life. If you don’t then I assume you are a bot. And in either case to become a Tankie you pretty clearly have failed on quite a few levels in your personal life, so for that you have my condolences.
Lol bro, go ahead and don’t vote then.
Are you able to read? I said “you can still vote blue while knowing they are totally fucking useless clowns, sucking their dick while you do it doesnt change anything”
And you just keep sucking that dick lol
I can see that any further discussion with you would be a major waste of time lol.
We are ready to support the Democratic party whenever they intend to use their power to enact any positive change.
We’re still waiting.
I’ve been waiting my entire life.
The party whose Supreme Court justices were responsible for all gay rights advancements, always vote to protect abortion rights, passed Obamacare to helps millions of Americans out, vs. a Republican party that has done literally everything in their power to empower their largest donors, and more recently has existed for the sole purpose of enriching the Trump family?
If you can’t see the difference between the two then you’re either being willfully obtuse or you’re a subversive agent for the GOP. My money is on the latter honestly.
Any party that allows wealth inequality to grow is not interested in fixing problems, just masking the symptoms.
If you were in the trolley problem and the trolley was headed towards a million people, I can imagine you opting not to pull the lever to switch it to a single person because you won’t act unless there’s a perfect option with zero casualties.
The two options in this trolly problem are Republican and Democrat.
Switching the lever to the other option fails to change the course of the train.
He likes how the conductor refuses to use the brake.
You just took a clear question/point (1 or 1 million people) and fabricated it into an unrelated and incorrect equivalency (omg what if they’re like Republicans and Democrats???). Realizing now I’ve wasted my time talking to someone who is, respectfully, a joke.
Democrats are in no way “left”.
No, the problem is ICE, an agency both parties nursed.
You don’t understand, ICE was deporting brown people when we thought they were terrorists, now that ICE is deporting brown people because Trump thinks they’re terrorists, it’s now evil.
That’s overly reductive and you know it.
Seems pretty accurate to me. It’s like the abortion issue too. Democrats will campaign on things it knows people like, but when they have actual power to do something, they always come up short.
Yeah remember all the messaging about how they’ll codify Roe v. Wade but just didn’t? But they sure loved all the fundraising they got by pretending to care about women.
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Between 2011 and 2015 the ICE budget stayed the same or fell in 2 years.
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Democrats enforced Obama era rules of 72 hour holding limitations for women and children, and followed a criminal-only persecution which actually deported more people than Trump despite the number of cages Trump filled. Thats what this is all about. Trump is filling cages for the private prison industry’s profits.
If you don’t want the DNC to compromise then elect more than 50 of them to the Senate, and a strong house majority.
If you don’t want the DNC to compromise then elect more than 50 of them to the Senate, and a strong house majority.
They could have all 100 seats and still find a way to capitulate.
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Average Lemmy user, “There is no difference between the politician on the left and the politician on the right.”
I was just going to point out that deportations were higher under Biden.
Then I remembered who that guy in the picture is!
Hindenburg literally appointed Hitler chancellor, approved the Reichstag Fire Decree, and gave the Nazis emergency powers by singing the Enabling Act of 1933. Do you not even credit him slightly for the rise of Hitler and the Nazis?
Anyone who knows the guy on the left: “Hindenburg went out of his way to empower Hitler and the Nazis when it was clear that his coalition was failing. Instead of working with the Social Democrats, he empowered the Nazi. Without his choices, there’s a chance that the Hitler wouldn’t have come to power. He’s an awful person.”
You: “so you think there’s no difference between the two?!”
You are proving my point. One was bad, the other was evil and you can’t see the difference.
You: “so you think there’s no difference between the two?!”
Lesser, greater, middling.
The guy on the left appointed Hitler and then gave him power with the Enabling Act and aided in giving him unchecked powers.
So without Hindenburg, Hitler wouldn’t have been put into power. So he’s far from a good guy.
. So he’s far from a good guy.
That was my point. One is bad, the other is pure evil. Lemmy: " I see no difference."
So the bad guy is acceptable because he’ll enable the next guy to be even worse?
Maybe we don’t elect people who do nothing to stop the pure evil?
Still waiting for the Democrats to start fighting Nazis
But they wrote strongly worded letters, that’s the same right?
The only two who tried to shoot Trump were right wing. I have seen any leftists/socialists try and stop Trump either.
Shooting Trump wouldn’t really help? He’d just become a martyr for MAGA and JD Vance would do all the shit Trump was going to do, but also use the assassination as an excuse to deport leftists.
This all under a picture of Hitler hah
If you kill Hitler and aren’t organized enough to take advantage of the infighting (or assassinate the rest of Nazi leadership) then one of the other Nazis will just slide into his place. It’s not like there are a shortage of potential Hitlers around.
Assassination has to be part of a larger, more organized political project or it doesn’t really accomplish anything.
Idk I’d probably still advocate killing Hitler
But it doesn’t fix anything.
A hypothetical time traveler needs to build organized resistance and implement a strategy to destroy the the Nazi Party, otherwise you just get WW2 and the Holocaust with a different guy in charge. You can’t even be sure it would be better if you replaced Hitler with a different Nazi. Remember, Hitler lost.
Lone wolf tactics and adventurism do not work and can not work.
Even if it would be really funny.
I like how in this analogy, republicans are Hitler and democrats are the guy who brought Hitler to power. Very apt.
.ml user specifically
This post is on .world so I’d expect the majority of upvotes are .world too.
Could be, OP is posting from a .ml address though. My comment was referring to them
No, it’s from .ml. Check again
Lebensraum, and the implied means to achieve it, was a policy goal of WW1 as it happens.
That’s kind of the idea I was thinking of. Lemmy users would focus on the bad of Hindenburg and declare him identical to Hitler. Hindenburg wasn’t a saint but it’s wrong to say there’s no difference between Hindenburg and Hitler.
You like the politician on the left because he appointed the politician on the right.
How does this post say there is no difference?
Instead your comments tend to be similar to how republicans always claim “It is fine when my team does it”
Do you have anything better than using an ad hominem?
Funding ICE and even reducing the budget while following normal legal procedures is a gigantic difference between Trump increasing ICE 3X and performing illegal deportations.
It’s not an ad hominem, it’s a comparison.
Funding ICE kept it around for trump.
Every country has immigration enforcement.
As did we before ICE. Just because you love you some gestapo, that doesn’t mean they’re needed.
You realize every country has border patrol, right? Spending money on your border patrol agency isn’t inherently evil. Denmark is one of the most “socialist” countries in the world, but they also have one of the strictest border policies.
ICE under Obama was very different to ICE under Trump.
You realize every country has border patrol, right?
Maga talking point from a maga acolyte.
Wait are cotton pickin minute. The conservative media has been telling me Democrats are letting illegal aliens waltz across the border. Did they lied?
ICE will play the role of the IRGC in Iran or other paramilitary groups you see in theocratic and authoritarian countries.
ICE is going to recruit guerilla fighters to resist a genocidal ethnostate?
If the world were a binary meme world this might make sense, but it’s more like saying stuff happened during the day… night… day… night…
Wait no you can’t do that! The Democrats would never eat my face, I can only conceive of that happening to Republicans
You say inflation makes numbers go up each year?
Weird that inflation only seems to really exist for the carceral state.
Feel CLEAN! Vote GREEN! /s
No
why /s?
if you want anything to change, vote, if you don’t agree with any candidate, vote third party
elections are usually very close, if a third party is polling at about a few percentage points, major parties will bend over backwards to get those votes.
that’s how we got Brexit (a bad thing) but it was weaponised third parties.
