As several people in this thread have pointed out, some forms of slavery do exist in the US. For example, prison labor, sex trafficking, and other forms of coerced labor.
However we do not have chattel slavery, where you can actively buy and sell other humans as property. I would be extremely surprised if that ever made a comeback.
I’m not at all convinced this is true. My kids - one of their friend’s families had a live in cook and nanny servant who they thought was likely a slave, and one of my friends said when she told her friend in passing she needed household help, the friend told her she could get her someone, that she could buy a person.
I think it’s more underground but no way is it gone, not even here. I wish I could believe it was gone.
What do you think allowed for it in the past?
Worse societies and tradition.
Our society is inherently better? What about it? What about it that prevents slavery?
You didn’t ask what prevents chattel slavery now. That would be the laws passed by victorious abolitionists. You asked why it happened in the past. It happened in the past because it had always existed and nobody had put a stop to it yet.
It’s still happens, in the world.
Are you trying to be difficult? Your original post was about the US. Every reply you make you change the context.
Well their username checks out.
Obviously. But it ain’t legal, mostly.
Slavery never went away.
There are lots of legal slaves in the US. They’re just in prisons so out of sight, out of mind. It’s constitutionally legal.
When the government ran most prisons many would pay them a couple of dollars an hour or something to make it seem more like work. Now many for profit prisons either pay pennies an hour or nothing at all, and many require you to work either directly or by making the meals low in nutrition or completely inedible so they have to buy their real food. And this isn’t like working by cleaning or laundry or whatever, this is making products that the prisons sell. Much of the stuff labeled “Made in America” is made by slaves.
There are also lots of illegal slaves hidden away. Mostly immigrants who couldn’t afford the thousands of dollars to apply for legal status before their visas ran out or who were carried across the border as babies and had to hide it their whole lives or other similar circumstances.
Outside of prisons, you mean?
Slavery ended?
Literally the 13th amendment:
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
The last slave as in chattel slave, a person who was owned by another, was freed in the 1940s. Passing a law alone does not end a practice. Hell even outside of prisons we have undocumented immigrants who often have no other choice but to allow themselves to be exploited for their labor or starve. We have immigrant children working in Tyson and Purdue chicken factories not only being paid less than minimum wage but also being severely injured.
“We are all given bathroom breaks at the same time and there are hundreds of us waiting to use them. There are only seven bathrooms,” she said. “They [Tyson] don’t care about the worker. They don’t care if we get sick.”
This was during covid at a Tyson chicken factory primarily staffed by migrants
The plight of Central American migrants in the meat industry was drawn into sharp focus last year when the Trump administration’s immigration enforcement agency (Ice) carried out its largest raid in years on four poultry facilities in Mississippi. They arrested 680 undocumented workers but none of the companies, which included the multibillion dollar Koch Foods, faced any charges over employment practices.
“According to a report compiled by Eric Ruark, the director of research at the Federation for American Immigration Reform (Fair), as of 2006, only 27% of workers hired by agribusinesses are American citizens, 21% are green card holders, around 1% are part of the guest worker program … and a whopping 51% are unauthorized immigrants”.
And I cannot stress enough
“When workers arrived, they encountered a situation that a federal judge later called ‘wretched and loathsome’. They were packed in small houses with about twenty other people. Although it was the middle of winter, the houses had no heat, furniture, or blankets. One worker said that his house had no water, so he flushed the toilet with melted snow. They slept on the floor, where cockroaches crawled over them. At dawn, they rode to the plant in a dilapidated van whose seating consisted of wooden planks resting on cinder blocks. Exhaust fumes seeped in through holes in the floor” (Grabell).
Inside of that same plant over the course of seven years
since 2010, more than seven hundred and fifty processing workers have suffered amputations”
Case Farms has built its business by recruiting some of the world’s most vulnerable immigrants, who endure harsh and at times illegal conditions that few Americans would put up with”. And since many of the workers are undocumented, “the company has used their immigration status to get rid of vocal workers, avoid paying for injuries, and quash dissent”.
they were paid “around $2.25 for every thousand chickens
One-third of the Perdue plant’s overnight cleaning crew was made up of children, workers told The Times.
These are not just bad eggs. Our food industry is built on human blood
Even driving by some Tyson chicken factories with a camera will have a security car on your ass immediately asking you to delete the footage. I am not joking
That’s still slavery and involuntary servitude. And all that is needed for greedy, sick, psychotic monkeys to criminalize every little thing. Or selectively enforce criminalization to gain themselves a slave workforce. As they have done.
get em
Yes because modern slavery is much more effective. Make people take over debt and then pay them the minimum, barely enough to survive, and they will do whatever you tell them to do. You don’t need guard or weapon although a little bit of propaganda and no union, because union are communism and communism bad m’kay.
All forms of slavery
Then it never stopped, question is irrelevant.
As others have pointed out, slavery is still used as a punishment for prisoners in most states. The south in particular used/uses it to maintain slavery of african americans through selective enforcement of laws. Human trafficing is still a thing in the US even if it isn’t legal. And the way our economy works can be likened to a form of wage slavery where people often dont have a choice but to work for a specific employer. Especially if they’re undocumented. Apple was caught using the H1B visa program as a means of keeping immigrant employees effectively trapped there. The justice department fined them 25 million dollars. A slap on the wrist for exploiting vulnerable people.
At this point I wouldn’t be surprised if Cthulhu himself rose from Lake Michigan and started a slow trek south, gathering followers and accepting sacrifices as he goes.
You can see the bottom of lake Michigan on a clear day.
Superior he could hide in. That one is deep, though we still have nothing on lake Balakai
We’ve already got prison slavery and wage slavery running rampant, but I don’t think chattel slavery will make a comeback.
Slavery already exists in the US in various forms, and in greater numbers than prior to the Civil War, but no I would not be surprised if the right wingers legalize slavery again, or if Gilead/Texas tries first.
Either way fuck the Confederate wannabes, we should smash them now so we don’t have to do it yet again later, which is what Grant failed to do during the Reconstruction era.
Sherman was right!
Slavery is currently legal a the federal level for incarcerated people as that exception was carved out in the 13th Amendment. That is pretty much maxed out in its current state through disproportionately incarcerating minorities, and is likely to be the primary reason that the US has such a ridiculously high incarceration rate.
Sherman was a psychopathic mass murderer. Look up his slaughter of American Indians. He was a terrible person who was pointed at even worse people for once and set loose. Don’t idealize him.
What is your definition of slavery that would mean there is more slavery now than before the civil war?
Well there’s absolutely a lot of real and actual slavery across the country, from domestic servants who are being held against their will, to sex slaves, and of course the numbers scale up with our population. So our population during the civil war was 31+ million, with close to 4 million of that being slaves, now we have 331+ million people, if you combine the instances of domestic and indentured servitude with sexual slavery, then add in those wrongfully in the prison system it scales to being much more than the sub 4 million in slavery during the civil war.
I know a lot of people would want to say “but the prison system is prisoners who committed crimes” but a lot of people are in prison because of failed justice, or on poverty based offenses, some of which compile with other petty offenses. Now also another caveat is that prison work isn’t usually compulsory, it’s normally voluntary, but one can argue that it’s the prison that has the leverage over these people volunteering or not.
Overall these statistics aren’t easy to calculate because modern day slavers want to hide and obfuscate their crimes, but it’s there, it exists, and it exists in places you may not expect, like the next time you’re sitting in a park in Manhattan consider the fact that one of the many domestic workers present may in fact be enslaved against their will, and this could be said in LA, Miami, Atlanta, anywhere in the US.
And even if someone is in the prison system for entirely correct reasons, forcing them to work is still slavery. I don’t care if they’re the most guilty awful person ever, if they need to be put in prison then put them in prison. That’s the purpose of prison.
Trying to get economic benefit out of holding people in prison is not a slippery slope, it’s a slippery cliff. The moment you try to justify it for anyone you’re opening the door to a moral disaster.
But let’s be objective with this, most of prison work is voluntary, and the desire to do something, anything, sometimes gets the best of us and due to that we’ll do the volunteering, it’s important to make that distinction, especially when I’ve been there and done that.
Now the obvious differences are prisons like Angola in Louisiana, which still has the same chaingang that they were depicted to have in movies decades behind us, there’s no voluntary work there, those are prison work camps/concentration camps, and are tantamount to slavery, if not outright slavery, and are violent as hell, and these types of prisons can be found all across the American South, but especially along the Gulf Coast.
“You can work and spend your entire pittance on ramen noodles, or you can go stir-crazy in your cell and eat stewed cardboard” is a voluntary choice only in the most strictly pedantic sense.
That’s being a bit Hyperbolic, and these aren’t the types of prisons or jails where you’re stuck in a cell all day, that’s your misconception, the only people who are locked up like that are the ones that have proven themselves too dangerous to be around others, or at least that’s how it’s supposed to be when our prison system is working correctly, and the only prisons where that’s consistently their prison existence is the SuperMax prisons, because again, those people are too dangerous to let roam without supervision.
Mostly it’s just a chance to get out from behind the walls and the fences, sure they’d rather be free, but I’m sure we’d all rather they not do shut that gets them put in prison, and regardless of your feelings towards prisons people who commit crimes, real crimes, belong there, or some form of prison that emphasizes rehabilitation.
And you are certain there is no reprisal against anyone that refuses?
Most guards could not give a shit less, they’re there to do their jobs and go home, so if you’re not going to volunteer some other person will, or they’ll just take whomever did volunteer. Sure you might run into some dickhead guard that demands it but that guard is just a symptom of our broken system and is most likely operating in a manner that would get them in trouble if the right people are notified.
But as I said to another person who replied to me that then you have prisons like Angola, which are basically just concentration camps, they staff the place with brutal guards purposely to keep the place viciously violent, and every single one of the prisons like Angola should be shut down with the staff prosected.
So it really depends on the prison, but the majority are of the more mellow variety, although overpopulation makes the more mellow prisons drastically less mellow.
The Private Prisons have contracts to fulfill, your optimistic belief that folks all volunteer is laughable.
If you aren’t accounting for the change in population and you’re just comparing the estimated number of slaves, then you are definitely correct. However, I think its probably better to measure what percentage of the population is made up of slaves.
I agree, but that’s also what I’m trying to say is that the natural scale of the population increase will still scale out to be a higher slavery total than back then, but that’s total numbers, the percentages would be vastly different, like during the civil war era slaves were about 9.6% of the population of the US, but because of slavery not being tracked so closely now we couldn’t get an accurate total for slavery in the modern era, and there would be nitpicking about what counts as slavery and what does not.
Always loved this logic.
There’s more people enslaved today than there ever has been in the history of the world
No no, let’s not think about it that way -
The percentage of people that are slaves is roughly the same or decreasing 🥰🥰🥰
Obviously there are going to be more total enslaved people now, it scales with the population. The problem with looking at it that way is that it doesn’t actually tell you if the situation is improving. All it tells you is that there are way more people now. That’s why you look at a percentage. That will tell you how bad the problem was, how much better its gotten, and how much better it needs to get.
I’m not trying to argue that everything is ok because a smaller percentage of people are enslaved now. A percentage is simply the more useful method of measuring how common slavery is and comparing it to different times.
Chattle slavery? Certainly but slavery never left, it just changed
Prison.
Yes? What kind of stupid question is this? I’d take to the streets.
Then take to the streets. Slavery is legal in prisons.
I have been. What have you been doing about it?
Slavery never disappeared anywhere.
Prisoners are the slaves… Slavery has never stopped in the USA just changed form
We never got rid of slavery in the US. We merely shifted cost of ownership. Quite successfully. The laws have been advanced and tweaked to make everyone a potential criminal, especially if a minority. Prison labor is absolutely legal. The prison system is mostly privatized and for-profit. Healthcare is tied to employment, with dental care (a foundational element of good health) often being an add-on to employer-provided health insurance.
Stop the country, I want to get off.
Refs:
- Hacking of the American Mind by Robert Lustig
- New Jim Crow by Michelle Alexander
- Evil Geniuses by Kurt Andersen
But there already is slavery in US. look into unpaid prison labor
