Hello Lemmy!
I have moved to a walkable area and no longer need to have my car keys on me all the time. My landlord has put in a crappy 4 digit combination style door lock, but said I could change it.
What is the best kind of keyless door lock that I can use instead? Ideally one with decent enough security to be as good or better than a key?
Thanks for your input!
If you watch lock picking lawyer, you may as well just leave it open. Most smart locks seem to prioritise convenience over security. -possibly check that your insurance is happy with a smart lock.
As my father would say “locks keep honest people honest”
I know most aren’t great—that’s why I’m asking for suggestions here.
Replace “most” with “all of them” and you’ll get somewhere… I have still to find one I’d be using, and so far I’ve only found crap and worse crap.
So what is the best way of securing a door without spending thousands?
I’d go with a good quality traditional key lock fitted properly in a good door and frame. Security isn’t a single point task, it depends on many things so think like a bad person and do what you can to make your property a harder target than your neighbours.
A good lock on a bad door doesn’t work, neither does a bad lock on a good door. Everything needs to work together. If you’re likely to lose your keys or many people need access a smart lock may be an idea, but good probably isn’t cheap. If it’s just you and you can keep your keys safe, then I think tried, tested and simple kit is good.
Ultimately though, as ever, it’s your risk assessment based on your needs.
Good advice. Thanks. 🤝
A good lock on a bad door doesn’t work
Oh, it does work. It saves the lock from being picked if a sharp kick does the job ;-)
This is a high quality lock that will not be picked, either by a thief or a locksmith. Don’t lose your keys!
It is expensive but far less than the thousands you mentioned. Of course without armor to prevent kicking down the door, the best lock in the world won’t help you, so installing some armor would be a good thing to do.
https://securitysnobs.com/Abloy-Protec2-Single-Cylinder-w-Lockable-Thumbturn-Deadbolt.html
Locksmith here. What specifically are you looking for? I can tell you now, avoid Level, they are incredibly vulnerable to brute force attacks. I would also steer clear of any “Amazon” type smart locks. If it’s not a major brand, it hasn’t been vetted and there’s little one can do as a consumer if it fails.
I’ll give more detailed recommendations depending on your needs, and pro/con of the options available that meet that need. Do you need:
- A key override if batteries die?
- (Or no key at all, ever?)
- Internet connectivity/app integration?
- Latch monitoring?
- Price range?
Thank you!
My main requirement was getting away from needing a key, and making sure the door locks behind me. I would like to avoid network capabilities unless they are local and very secure. Long battery life or no battery at all would be ideal.
I was thinking about a 6-8 digit combo lock made out of something that doesn’t wear easily so the buttons aren’t revealed overtime, that makes certain that the door locks behind you—an issue with the current lock that requires a button to be mashed for locking every single time.
Kwikset Obsidian
No key, use a 9V battery on the exterior terminals if you get locked out because of a dead battery
User codes 4-8 digits in length
Smudge resistant touchscreen, sometimes annoying to activate
Discontinued, but you can find them on Amazon
Compatible with standard US deadbolt prep, no additional drilling required
Has an automatic relock option, locks itself after 30 seconds. Just didn’t forget, if you propped the door open for a minute, the bolt is extended. Don’t mindlessly slam the door
Because this doesn’t have a keyway, I have no problem recommending this Kwikset. Kwikset Smartkey has gotten better, but still has vulnerabilities that I didn’t like.
overtime
“over time”, right?
I don’t do auto lock ever because I’m screwed if I walk outside (get mail for example) without my phone or keys.
I’m not OP, but I’ve been trying to figure this out for a while.
I’ve been looking for something smart integrated as a deadbolt, or some kind of electronic deadbolt that can be wired to a relay to open/close.
Any suggestions on where I should look?
My ultimate goal would be to integrate it into something akin to the unifi access platform. I’m not 100% on using that specifically, but something similar. This is for my home, key bypass would be nice (as long as it’s not easily pickable).
Security is #1 for me, but I’m hoping to build out something a bit more convenient.
I’m in IT, so the back end should be pretty trivial for me to build and implement.
Thanks
Regarding integration to a home network, well… I’m not up on residential stuff, so consider this a starting point
If you’re looking for a higher security keyway or a more durable lock, I’d go with a smart lock retrofit kit like August or Yale Approach. These will mount to an existing deadbolt inside the door and turn it into an electrified DB, but the outside remains unchanged. I will say Medeco has some interesting standalone deadbolt solutions, but they are geared for larger systems and commercial use.
On the hardware side, you can’t go wrong with a Schlage B250 with a Primus cylinder. Other options are the ASSA 7000 series, the Medeco Maxum, or the Mul-T-Lock Hercular. Add a reinforced strike plate, and, if your really worried, a door wrap for another layer of metal reinforcement on the door, and you’re sitting pretty. Now the bad guys will take over look at your Fort Knox door, shake their heads in despair, and break a window instead.
and break a window instead.
Exactly why I don’t fret too much on it. I replaced all the locks on the outer doors with a keyed alike set from someone similar to kwikset. I think it’s a “local” rebrand of the same stuff, complete with the smartkey/rekeying system. I’m not a fan, but honestly, the doors aren’t going to stand up to someone determined to get in, and there’s ground floor windows… So…
I just needed a starting point from someone who knows enough about this stuff that they can point me in the right direction, without having to do a ton of research (which is what I would have to do). If I can start somewhere instead of just googling blindly, that will save me a ton of effort.
The unifi access platform uses a small door entry controller that basically just has options for no/nc relays that flip when the door unlocks. It’s supposed to be used with an electric strike, but I don’t know of any electric strikes that work with deadbolts, at least, not without remortgaging my house. So I’d rather just set up an electric deadbolt, and rig it with a sensor that will only extend the deadbolt if the door is actually closed (so the deadbolt doesn’t extend when the door is wide open).
That system also supports maglocks which I also think is overkill for home use. So I’m a bit torn on it. But that’s all just decisions to be made.
The missing piece is how to secure the front door, which basically only has a deadbolt for security the door knob doesn’t have a key. The latch is just to hold the door closed when the lock isn’t engaged. Rather than rip out everything, I’m looking to just focus on the lock.
Anyways, that’s a lot of backstory that nobody asked for. I appreciate lead. I’ll look into everything that you mentioned. I appreciate it.
August smart lock uses your existing deadbolt and exterior key port.
I know enough about smart technology to know the best lock is the old school analog ones. A hacker can break into many RF based locks with a toy turned garage door opener master key.
The cloud based always connected to the internet ones are even spookier and I dont trust my network security enough for that shit and honestly neither should you
Look I understand the temptation of smart technology connecting to your phone but were not talking about a fridge with a camera and mic that connects to the internet here. If there’s one thing I dont want hackers potentially getting into its the literal locks and bolts to my home and car. Get something analog.
Watch the Lockpicking Lawyer videos on youtube and just stick with a normal lock. Any lock that doesn’t suck major balls will cost way too much.
I’ve been using a set of Yale’s digital combination locks for more than a decade and they have been great. They support multiple codes of up to at least 8 digits, but you can choose fewer. Battery life has been very good and they’re easy to change.
They have no exterior keyway, which makes them harder to bypass using conventional methods. If you get stuck outside with the battery dead, just hold a 9V battery against two contacts on the underside of the keypad to provide power.
We have them on all three of our exterior doors. Between those, and our keyless cars, we no longer need to use keys.
The Yale Assure is a fantastic lever style lock with a module system for different smarts compatibility. We have one and it’s high quality with a lot of features. Hasn’t failed us yet. Its number pad is under glass and lights up when the Yale logo is pressed so it doesn’t look too smart (physical buttons).
I have a Yale PIN lock that has swappable wireless cards. I use it on a Zigbee network, but that’s completely optional. It’s fantastic. Even without the wireless, it’s great.
I’ve had to reprogram it once or twice just due to issues with my smart home stuff, and even the physical interface is nice and easy, assuming you’re just entering your PIN or if you have the manual available if you’re doing anything more involved.
Physical Abloy-style lock, not a “smart” lock.
Go see some cybersecurity type people, & see that they put physical security in place where they value real security.
ITIS ( Information Technology Information Systems ) has many vulnerability & attack-surfaces that “dumb” metal doesn’t.
If you look, you will discover that there is a news-story about a company which did the hotel-locks for zillions of hotels in our world, that had a fundamental compromise in their design, & now everybody has to replace all those locks, but … that isn’t going to happen, is it?
IOW, criminality-industry was helped by all that “convenient” ITIS.
Please consider going with an Abloy Protec style physical-lock.
The Lockpicking Lawyer could get in, as could some of his equals, in mere minutes, but for the opportunistic-jackassery of normal robberies?
You can’t EMP a non-digital-lock to kill it, can you?
There isn’t a backdoor in the thing ( unless you multi-key it, but even then, with 21 iirc discs in the thing… it’s still locked )
etc.
You are using a Master Lock 607. It can be opened using a Master Lock 607. (smacks locks together, causing them to open)
— Trevor McNally, 2023
Abloy mentioned, torille!
Not to be pedantic, commercial systems do go through lock replacements if they are budgeting properly.
A guest wouldn’t notice unless they were watching maintenance teams replacing lock internal components.
Not to be pedantic, commercial systems do go through lock replacements if they are budgeting properly.
BE pedantic. It’s the rare company that has their BCP ready and a slush fund for bad decisions. The other 99.9% need to trim costs and, this year, withbeveryrbingnelse broken, swapping out the locks that really only a handful of people in Romania know abou— NO CARRIER
Schlage makes a keyless entry lock that isn’t strictly “smart” (no wifi or Bluetooth) but is pretty well made and as secure as any common deadbolt lock. I have two and have been using them for several years with no problems. I can’t remember the model but they are in the $100 price class and most major hardware outlets have them.
As others have said, I’d stay away from any kind of fully remote lock.
Is a key that big a problem? Don’t you have to carry other keys anyway?
https://biggaybunny.tumblr.com/post/166787080920/tech-enthusiasts-everything-in-my-house-is-wired
Not anymore! I walk most places.
Why would not needing a car key mean you can’t use other keys anymore? Just get a key and put it in your wallet.
It’s not that I can’t, it’s that I would prefer not to. Having nothing but an ID and credit card in skinny jeans is way better than the big bulge of keys.
A single key is as slim as any card…
A single key is also a loss risk if you take anything out of a pocket. I’m always nervous about a single key. And then there’s the ‘where did that go’ when you change without emptying the pockets because its so small you forget its there.
get a key
big bulge of keys.
Unless your SINGLE KEY is as big as a gas station bathroom key brick, you’ve straw-manned this.
I love in a walkable area. I have my phone, visa card and door key. One of those could be on a cord around my neck.
You could have said “I don’t have a recommendation for a keyless lock”.
Pay by phone, who needs a credit card? Some cars have phone keys.
I agree with the sentiment: it would be nicer to only need to worry about bringing my phone. I already have my car key and credit card handled by my phone, so house key is the only remaining thing
If you’re gonna be putting a number lock or anything of the sort on anything, make it a lock box to keep the key for the door in.
Focus on a secure key lock instead of trying to find a better alternative, the best you can do is a harder to pick key lock.
I’ve had no issues with my Eufy smart lock. It has a fingerprint reader which is super convenient. It also allows you to program in multiple people, each with different codes, fingerprints, and allowed access time.
Does it integrate with Homebase?
I dont think so, there’s not a camera on mine so no video to store
Take an electrical lock with good mechanical quality. No smartness inside the lock itself, just a + and - wire.
Then put the “smartness” inside the house, where it cannot be attacked.
A cheap keypad on the outside, so you can replace it every year without shedding a tear.
You attack the connection to the dumb bolt.
I have a couple of u-tec ones. They work on a fingerprint or code. You can set codes for other people either permanently or temporarily. If you have the Wi-Fi bridge you can lock it and unlock it from a distance. They’re not cheap.
What’s wrong with a 4 digit combination?
It’s really easy to see over a shoulder, and if you are able to deduce the buttons that were pressed, then there are only 24 possible combinations. This lock has no timeout for failures, and there is another public door nearby which means that people will sometimes be near when I’m putting in the code.
How is it only 24? What am I missing? 0-0-0-0 to 9-9-9-9, no?
This is where I got that number from, and it assumes that there are no repeated buttons.
https://socratic.org/questions/how-do-you-figure-out-the-number-of-combinations-in-4-digit-numbers
Ah, ok, so there’s only 4 numbers to work with, and the code has to be a length of 4 as well? Can numbers not be repeated? It should be 4^4 I believe, because you can do 1-1-1-1, 1-1-1-2 etc.
Their assumption is that it is four digits long and the person knows which four digits but not the order.
Ah, ok. So it’s not just trying all combinations. The numbers could be worn out from pressing over and over, for example.
Assuming the numbers go from 0 to 9 (those included) and can be repeated, it must be 10 * 10 * 10 * 10 = 10000 combinations :-)
Related question: is there a product that can tell me if my door is locked or not? I’m not interested in a lock that is capable of unlocking itself, but I want to make HASS routines that remind me to lock the door.
August smart lock has a sensor to determine if the door is open/closed.
