Summary
Many Democrats, especially women, expressed disillusionment and frustration online, viewing the result as a reflection of deep-seated misogyny in the U.S.
Harris supporters highlighted anger that a “felony convicted, twice-impeached” Trump prevailed over a female candidate.
Comparisons to Hillary Clinton’s 2016 loss resurfaced, with many attributing Trump’s win to targeted appeals to young men, including appearances with influencers like Joe Rogan.
The election outcome has intensified concerns over growing right-wing radicalization among young men.
Not “just hates women” it also hates minorities of all kinds.
Honestly, I feel we have a huge disinformation problem. A war really where billionaires, Russia, Iran,and China are on one side and we’re on the other. They treat it like a war while we treat it like a small infestation. So many Republicans I speak with bring up reason why they support trump that are reasonable: Better economy, Protecting children, protecting rights, protecting jobs, reducing crime.in a vacuum, cool candidate. Except that many of the strategies he utilize to accomplish those goals seems illegal or unhelpful. Even worse, who cares if he could and would accomplish those goals, He tried to overthrow the government. Yet all the Republicans I know view that as untrue. Mainly in the form of, “I don’t hear about it much, so it’s either fake news,or not really a coup”
Why? Because they get their news from faux news and social media that have focused on keeping those negative aspects of him buried. And both of those things have huge reach.they are the eyes and ears of these voters, how can they not believe their eyes and ears that tell them that Trump is great?
Until that problem is dealt with, we can’t have an informed population that votes. Instead we will have a large group of uninformed voters. It’s not their fault, they’re just some of the first casualties in this disinformation war.
I saved a comment from u/allmhuran posted to r/news on 2016-06-24:
"Australia has had five prime ministers in five years, the poor yanks look as though they’ll have to choose between two options both of which have more disapproval than approval, and the UK leaves the EU. It seems like a ridiculous amount of instability. One might even call it absurd.
But it’s not surprising.
You can’t feed a society exaggeration, hyperbole and propaganda for over a decade, and then claim surprise when people don’t seem to be making rational decisions on the basis of well established truth.
There’s a cost associated with not telling the truth. There’s a cost associated with polarized, adversarial public discourse. There’s a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
It is, apparently, time to pay the piper."
There’s a cost associated with media more concerned with profits than the public interest.
Media: good thing we’re not the ones paying the price! Continue current heading, profits ho!
I think education is a factor here as well. People collectively seemed to have started just taking any sources word as objective truth with no rationalisation or justification. The fact we now have google forcing ai answers onto people that are factually wrong or unreliable and most just don’t question it is emblematic of the problem. People lack critical thinking now.
Very well stated. We need to operate within this reality instead of the fantasy land created by those who will be fine either way.
And what’s the suggestion here? I’m not getting it.
They aren’t suggesting anything. They’re saying we’re poisoned and it’s gone critical.
“So many Republicans I speak with bring up reason why they support trump that are reasonable: Better economy, Protecting children, protecting rights, protecting jobs, reducing crime”
Except Trump has done none of these things. These people are lying to you, and probably to themselves.
That’s the point I’m trying to make(but didn’t do well). Successful Media is telling Trump can, has and will do these things . If they’re told this repeatedly, with no other sane opinions, of course they will believe it. Worse still, they’re also told views to the contrary are completely false and should be disregarded
The worst part is all of those claims can be easily debunked, but not a one of them will ever believe it.
Don’t take the word of a fascist at face value. They don’t argue in good faith. They are all racists and sexists, every single one. They’re just too cowardly to say it to your face.
Completely untrue. Their good intentioned. They just are given news from an alternate reality where Trump is not fascist, racist, and is so smart. When you don’t hear bad news on someone, how can you know their bad?
I’ve had conversations with 4 different people who just happened to go mask off in the last few days. Please stop believing liars.
That’s sad to hear. Not the people I know. Your experience isn’t a reflection of everybody else’s
Unless that the large portion of americas population that thinks the ultra rich are awesome suddenly stops thinking that way then it’s gonna be a difficult battle.
People always go with the excuse that coincidentally makes them least responsible, unless they win and then it’s 100% all them.
Women should just fucking leave their Trump voting husband/boyfriend and should go no contact with their Trump loving fathers, brothers and sons. Seriously if the men don’t stand behind their women why should these women even support their men.
Go let them wallow in misery. And let them fight over the remaining nut job women who voted for Trump. The Trump male to Trump female ratio doesn’t favor these men in the dating scene.
These men who are meant to be protectors of the women in their lives have committed the ultimate betrayal of selling them out as slaves. What vile creatures. How could anyone stand to be in the same room as a man who did that to you. That would make me sick to my core.
They don’t value women enough to consider that a loss.
For them, all of the smart women shutting up or leaving is probably beneficial.
Genuinely curious, what about all the women that voted orange?
stockholm syndrome
Not really a thing:
4b baby
4B no babies.
Some will. Some can’t.
Theres always adding visine to your abusive husbands coffee
My favorite is “America is a deeply sexist country!” followed by “But misogyny didn’t contribute to this defeat at all!” by abstainers.
You can’t say that it didn’t contribute at all. I don’t think anyone is. And if they are, they’re stupid. But trying to boil it down to just that answer is even more stupid.
Harris retained more male Biden voters than female.
Capitalism is eating people alive. And people are fuckin sick of it. The democrats are the one party that actually pretends to try to appear to be on the “right” side, but will throw the working class under their campaign bus the minute the big money donors pull on their strings. So the betrayal people feel from the dems is fuckin palpable.
That, I think, is the biggest contributor. We are told they are the ones that will actually do good, but then get in office and “stay the course,” so their voters turn on them. Then we get people like trump and bush in office, and people are disgusted, so we hold our noses and vote for the democrats. But they’re Lucy and we’re Charlie Brown, and the cycle starts all over again. Meanwhile, the Overton window keeps lurching to the right, capitalism scorches the earth and robs us blind, and we all get more desperate. People are angrier than ever, and feel even more betrayed because it’s increasingly clear to more and more people that we have no one in our corner.
But here come the democrats again, telling us we’re on the right path, that we just have to trust them and their incrementalism nonsense while they try to court some nonexistent right-leaning swing voter. They fucked up bad on that last point this go round. They turned their backs on us in a big way to parade the Cheneys around telling us they were going to put republicans in the White House even if the democrats win? What in the fuck were they thinking?
Meanwhile, the Overton window keeps lurching to the right, capitalism scorched the earth and we all get more desperate.
Yes, tell me more about how much more conservative we were during the Biden administration than during the Bush administration. I’m all ears.
Dem leadership are feckless, spineless, and utterly out of touch. But that even left-wing voters slurp up shit propaganda that helps the right-wing because it sounds truthy is probably the most damning indictment of the American electorate.
One could make the argument that the leftists are right, and the people who keep supporting the democrats as they continually walk us down the path toward collapse are the ones that are slurping up propaganda about the system being able to save itself.
Look at the long list of anarchist and leftist thinkers. They’ve been ignored and shunted off to the side since the late 1800s. Arrested, killed, devastated by state propaganda. Assassinated, vilified.
All the while, democrats have been walking hand in hand with the republicans, defending the rotting corpse of capitalism as it drags us all under. We’ve had answers as to why so many are suffering. But those answers are a threat to the ownership class and the prevailing order. And I would argue that not upturning that order, instead opting to vote for the “lesser of two evils” no matter what, is 50% responsible for the situation we’re in.
You said it yourself. You want spineless, feckless, out of touch leaders so that we can avoid spiteful, hateful leaders. The spineless, feckless out of touch bunch was courting the spiteful hateful bunch. Because throughout history, liberals will reach for the fascists when the cry for true change to help the people become deafening. Look at France. Right now. The liberal, trying to hold onto power and the standing order, formed a coalition with the right wing, instead of the left wing that won the majority of the votes. Look at Harris, parading around the fuckin Cheney family when people were really just asking them to stop slaughtering children in Gaza and the West Bank.
Isn’t following that same path, regardless of the recorded history of a fascist outcome the more likely candidate for “slurping up propaganda?” Blaming the electorate for their entirely reasonable wants being ignored.
This is exactly how fascists have come to power. Through a desire to maintain the status quo and an uneasy alliance between liberals and the right wing. Defenders of the status quo thinking it’s better to go fascist than to challenge the prevailing order. Blaming the people who want real change when the people you were voting for lurched right is the definition of succumbing to a propaganda campaign.
We lost because of a lack of blue votes but what, 40% of the US basically voted to have them as property?
Trump voters are misogynistic assholes, that’s a given, and pay off the reason the Dems shouldn’t have been trying to get them… But it’s not like a bunch of people who voted for Joe went and voted for Trump… He didn’t get more votes this time. Millions of Biden voters just didn’t show up… And I don’t believe for a second that they didn’t show up because they just didn’t want to vote for a woman
It does suck that this country has so many misogynists… But they are a known factor and can/should have been planned for… that’s not what cost Dems this election
“Republicans hate women.” Plain and simple. Saw it on a t-shirt and just had to have it. God bless the truth coming out💙
It’s really beyond time for this sort of disinformation to fuck off.
Harris lost because she’s a neoliberal, full stop. Scapegoating it as sexism means you learned fucking nothing and will only keep losing.
If you think sexism wasn’t a significant part of this, I don’t know what to tell you. Of course it was. Biden wasn’t better than her in any way and he won against Trump. Despite the fact that practically no one was excited to vote for him. It’s baffling you’re even questioning this.
Biden wasn’t better, Trump’s issues were just more in the forefront of people’s minds. They asked themselves “do I want more of this” and said no. Since then there have been rose colored glasses that make people think he was good for the economy and they’ve forgotten the chaos. And now the “do I want more of this” question is moving against the Democrats and a candidate that was reticent to truly separate herself from “this”.
Anyone who wasn’t fully aware that Trump is the worst candidate ever… Is
totoo(damnit) dumb to have made it to a polling station.They all wanted a rapist in the White House.
Is to dumb to have made it to a polling station
I agree with you, but can’t pass up calling out the irony here.
It’s funny, but my phone being shit to type on isn’t ironic.
Not really what happened. Trump kept basically the same voters. As has been pointed out 5000 times, this election was lost because millions of Democratic voters stayed home. One of the primary reasons, which is slapping us in the face, is her gender. There simply isn’t a world where sexism exists where this wouldn’t have played a not-small role.
Whether sexism was an important part of it or not isn’t the point.
The point is that if we allow that statement to pass unchallenged, it will take over the narrative, none of the necessary reforms will happen, and the world will continue to get worse.
Right we can only talk about one thing. Fair.
We can talk about the one thing that’s important, or we can talk about mostly-irrelevant bullshit that not only fails to solve the problem, but actively works against solving it by serving as a distraction. I mean, if you just fucking love failure and losing for some reason, I guess you could do the latter, but why?
Absurd
Any sane adult should have beat Trump. He won because 72 million Americans want fascism.
no, he won because 20 million Americans played chicken in Americas only car and we fucking lost.
I kinda think the 73 million who voted R might be the bigger problem here.
they are a problem, but terrible people will be terrible and nothing will change that.
20 million voters figuratively said, “no, fuck you we want nothing to do with this system.” even though they are literally a part of the system.
it’s like negotiating with a toddler. ˢᵐᵃˡˡ world view with BIG ambitions.
Half of the reason government exists is to stop terrible people from being terrible. Religion is supposed to reign in the terrible people too, American Evangelicalism just creates terrible people.
yeah… Government exists to control the society. They say the government is the will of the people, but that’s been a lie historically for many, many, many years.
Religion is the antithesis of government. Religion is meant to control the will of the people. to direct it and hone it to a fine point.
Historically, if you look at the impact that religion had on systems of government, you can see that there’s definitely a negative impact where one becomes weaker.
The point being, both systems of government and religion are tools in which to control the fate of man. The reason why American Evangelicalism creates terrible people is because there are terrible people leading American Evangelicals.
And the reason why the American system of government supports terrible people is because it was modified to support terrible people. The same terrible people leading American evangelicals.
If we had any hope in making impactful change, it would have started with education.
Now, my fear is it’s too late for education. And what comes next will be horrific.
I think we definitely are in agreement here. My one quibble is I don’t know that religion is the antithesis of government so much as a more primitive form of government. The earliest religions were a form of law enforcement in world without police or judicial systems.
If it’s just you and someone else alone in the wilderness, why shouldn’t you just kill them and take their stuff? There are no consequences. Religion adds the consequences. “God will punish you. You’ll burn in Hell/Hades/Tartarus.” Why shouldn’t I steal? “It’s a sin.” Why shouldn’t I sleep with my neighbors wife? “It’s bad karma.” It’s all just laws enforced by a mythological father figure instead of a real guy with a gun.
Once all the smart, wealthy, moral, and ethical people flee the US that can flee the US do flee the US I’ll finally be able to get a job!
Completely agree, but I’ve been seeing so many similar sentiments on Lemmy since the election. Today I saw someone comment, almost word for word, that there was no problem with Kamala’s campaign - the issue was simply that Americans are too stupid. Someone else on a totally different post commented that this election proves the Dems could run Jesus Christ himself and half the country would still reject him. And those are just two examples. This is one of more unhinged meltdowns I’ve ever seen.
Dems could run Jesus Christ himself and half the country would still reject him
I mean, that is undeniably true, but we’ve known that for a lot longer than two days.
Dems would never run Jesus Christ because they only run sellout genocidal cartoon villains
???
My bad, that was a little aggressive. Dems wouldn’t run Jesus Christ because he would be perceived as a socialist
What they meant to say was “I stayed home because I pretend to care about Palestinians, but just killed them even more rapidly” because they are a hollow fake moral warrior
I voted, not that it mattered in the slightest, I’m not in a state where my vote means anything
GeNoCiDe
I get the anger from dems against those who didn’t vote but honestly that’s more on the democratic party for not putting forward a candidate that earned those votes than anything else. Neither candidate is “entitled” to votes, just because the other candidate is abhorrent. I do think things will get considerably worse now and that’ll hopefully teach those who didn’t vote that yes that can happen and they should vote but the decision not to isn’t on the electorate, it’s the party that felt like they deserved votes they didn’t earn.
Dem party has no obligation to court voters that won’t show up. Dems should not even bother with that segment ever again. This is why Dems were trying to convert more centrist republicans that do know how to show up and vote.
That’s stupid. People won’t show up tp vote for a party that doesn’t represent their values and the dems aren’t just entitled to votes because trump is the opponent. You can’t win an election on just “the other guy is worse”. You need policies that galvanise your voter base and actually makes a difference in their lives so they don’t feel voting for either party is a waste of time. Objectively trump is worse but it’s on the dems to convince the voters of that and they failed horribly.
Sure, go ask the average turnip voter if her neoliberal stances were why they voted for the rapist, 34 time convicted felon who cages children, is literally traded on the stock market and has nothing but praise for dictators, in fact who expressed his desire to be one multiple times on the campaign trail.
You folks are so desperate to not blame the majority of people who chose to either vote for that, or were at least comfortable with him as their leader.
It’s not “just” that, but it was the deciding factor that made this all moot from the start.
The people who voted for trump are, in their DNA, at their core, bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by anything else - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
" I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy details… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
The people who voted for trump are, in their DNA, at their core, bigoted cowards that wouldn’t have been swayed by anything else - She has a vagina and she’s black - That’s all it was ever going to be.
" I was this close, Bill… I just wanted more policy details… More time… If only they didn’t make me vote for trump".
My Trump-supporting mother, mother-in-law, father-in-law, sister-in-law and sister would all cite “abortion is murder” and “criminal illegals” bullshit before Harris’ vagina or skin ever came into it.
I almost wish the Dems had run Biden despite his terrible debate performance so that people wouldn’t blame the Dems losing on Harris’ vagina and skin color instead of her terrible campaign.
Trump did about as well as he did in 2020, that Harris lost is because she did worse than Biden did in 2020. Fear of Trump wasn’t as fresh to animate the base and she only really courted moderate republicans and middle class white women in the latter stages of her (short) campaign and that hurt turnout and turnout is the most important thing for Dems.
Misogyny is an easy excuse that doesn’t question the effectiveness of any of the politicians or consultants involved in the race. People forget that Biden only barely won what should have been an easy race. Now the difference between losing and barely winning is a big deal, but they all ran pretty similar campaigns trying to get the “good Republicans” while neglecting their base. Maybe Biden’s shriveled dick was the difference to get him to barely squeak past Trump while a woman wouldn’t, but none of these races should have been close. There’s a much bigger problem at play than “just don’t run women because too sexist”.
I’m with you. Some of the simplicity of this is what’s going to keep these cycles going.
Not defending bidens record here but are you really dissing an 81 yo dick? You think anyone has a girthy hog at 81?
Please don’t remind me that people actually voted for a guy who looks and smells like he died two weeks ago.
Arnold Palmer maybe.
Also, is this post serious? Because I’m assuming someone taking offense about colorful language about an old man’s penis can’t possibly be so, but it’s being played very straight that this is a real thing worthy of conversation.
Huh? I just think it’s weird to bring up as like, a burn.
We’re a mile down in a Lemmy thread, nothing here is serious.
Removed by mod
Oh, you’re the person who thinks I like Jill Stein for some reason. You’re clueless.
I guess you just carried water for her to spite the DNC, then?
Gotta distance yourself now.
You could literally just look in my history for “Jill Stein”, but you’re a blowhard who doesn’t do self-reflection. I already told you this, but just go on being aggressively ignorant.
He won by more than she lost by. It’s not an excuse, it’s just a part of the equation that cannot be ignored.
And? It’s been 4 years and a lot of factors have changed. If kamala didn’t engage with those 20 mil who felt Biden made promises he didn’t deliver and kamala has no plans to change anything then that could explain it. Blaming this purely on gender without any justification is just careless. Although I’m pretty sure the dems will see this as “women can’t win” rather than “we’re deeply out of touch and need real reform”.
No one said “purely” that’s ridiculous to begin with but also I chose my words carefully. seems like some of you really don’t want to face this for some reason
In a win as close as his, that’s not saying anything particularly significant. Biden’s win was what, 80,000 votes or so?
…if we are talking popular vote, hell no, it was several million, more than 5, which is what she lost by. If you don’t even remember this basic fact about it, why the hell make any argument at all?
He didn’t win by 5 million. Running up the numbers in California doesn’t win you the White House. He won in a few swing states by nail-biting margins.
Ok insist on comparing unlike things then. It doesn’t matter at all anyhow, if you look at the EC she lost the election by a country mile.
They hate black women, Hillary Clinton actually won the popular vote
Harris still might, California is only 60% counted with mostly urban places left to count.
It wouldn’t be much, but I still hope Harris wins the popular vote – even though I think she was a fucking garbage candidate. At least then I can go back to shouting from the highest tower that we should abolish the electoral college – but living in a world where Trump won the popular vote tells me America as a whole isn’t better than this, this is exactly who the majority of Americans are – hateful, scared and short sighted. I was lied to by my parents for my entire life – they told me there were more good people than bad people, but then they got old and they started voting for the very same bad people they taught me how to recognize. What the everloving fuck happened
No they hate cops. Harris was a terrible candidate
Just wait until Trump 2.0.
Trump used misogyny the entire campaign.
I guess that had nothing to do with it ? I guess that you are saying that was just a coincidence ?
Nice talking to you.
While there were many detrimental factors Dems failed to properly address or apparently expected to be treated as positives, the obvious main one was attempting to outflank the GOP from the right. Every attempt to talk negatively about immigration or social issues was bound to result in more people taking Trump seriously instead of thinking Dems will do something. Everything about the illegal immigration rethoric was false, from the numbers to the effects, and Dems knew it - they decided they wanted to pretend this issue exists, so they can also play the right wing populist game. Pro-genocidal rethoric was also something right wing electorate knew Trump would do better, and some people disgusted with that rethoric decided not to vote. Dems wanted to become more right wing, to get that sweet ability to talk complete bullshit about everything and cover their inefficiencies with the mirages of bigotry. They believed their more “reasonable” right wing populist will win instead of wild maniacy like Trump - exactly as they did back in 2016, except this time Kamala had the chance to shape a different image for herself and she refused to do so. They gambled going to get away with moving further right and still getting elected, since Trump should have been very unpopular by all metrics they were capable of imagining. Instead, they gained no votes from the right and lost a fuck ton from the center and the left. Their arrogant and callous campaign sentenced many americans to likely death. They absolutely could have fought with all they had and ceded concessions to their voters instead of donors and “allies” like Israel. They could have went left instead of right, as many of us hoped after the Walz VP pick. Instead they lost, as the worse and less dedicated right wing party of US. They’re to blame for what’s going to happen next, not some abstract impossible to be pointed with finger voters. Yeah, Harris being a black woman in this deeply conservative society was a detriment to her chances. That was outside of her control, unlike everything else she did or didn’t do.
I’ll be honest, unless most of the Democratic Party gets purged, it’s probably meaningless to vote for them (assuming you even can) in 2028. There couldn’t have been easier victory to be had, and they fucked it up. They should have called Trump a pedophile, but were afraid that their own pedophiles like Clinton would get hit with a shrapnell. They could have promised to tax the ultra rich, like Elon Musk down to the fucking ground, but they wanted their money themselves. They didn’t want to promise anything big, knowing fully well that no one would believe them with their terrible track record of implementing any meaningful and radical chances, while Trump claimed everything was the fault of immigrants and foreign adversaries and promised radical actions against them. Believing that they wont pull the same bullshit in 2028 is naive, they will refuse to learn anything from this catastrophe, move further right and campaign on “returning to the norm”. Fuck them. Let the greedy fucks burn, just as you will because of them. USA needs a third (and fourth, and fifth…) party, and it needs it now instead of in 4 years. Dems should be completely discarded, and I hope the pain you will feel in next 4 years, pain that they could have prevented but chose not to instead, will convince you as well.
Yeah, I’m done, sorry for the rant. Posts casting blame on voters instead of Dems majorly piss me off right now.
I think like this, the only time Trump lost, was when racing against another white cishet dude, just more white and old than him, more respectable so to speak, he even was a previous VP. Harris had that same feat in the list, among lot of qualifications. Patriarchy is real, 10 million voters that showed up for him, didn’t for her, and I can’t help to draw the same conclusions here. This is what you get when you let your country lean to the right year after year. After witnessing this defeat, I’m now sure 100% that USA is not going to have a woman as president in my lifetime. The only way for this to happen is both Dems and Reps present woman candidates, so you will be forced to pick a woman one way or another. And Reps are not going to present such candidate in my lifetime.
You morons pick the clown over the woman, so far 100% of times it happened. White, latino and black men are still mostly male chauvinists, and that shows. A woman very qualified for the job is not fit for being president. If you want this to change, conversations about misogyny need to happen among your friends and family, denying this will not make it disappear, dumbfucks.
